Hello Lee,

In response to questions and comments you made in the DEBATE echo
in the thread "Golf--PH..etc" on and prior to July 28, 2010

Not only that, but Jesus did not have a Bible around.

I read the word "Bible" is linked to a place called Byblos.
And Byblos is known by several other names.

I doubt an uneducated, illiterate, homeless dude who
dressed in rags bothered to carry around a bible of any kind,

And... your comment is in reference to whom? Certainly not
the Jesus whose teachings and life reflected a thorough
knowledge of scripture.

Scripture? What scripture might that be?

"And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah.
And when He had opened the book,
He found the place where it was written..."

See: Luke 4:17-21

"Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant
and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue
were fixed on Him."


If He was illiterate and uneducated, how could He do these things?

"How does this Man know letters, having never studied?"
See: John 7:14-16


"And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them
in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself."
See: Luke 24:25-27

"I sat daily with you, teaching in the temple,
and you did not seize Me. But all this was done
that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled."
See: Matthew 26:53-56

"Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father;
there is one who accuses you - Moses, in whom you trust."
See: John 5:39-47

Uneducated? Illiterate? Unfamiliar with Scripture?
How could He advance an argument like this:

See: Matthew 5:17
See: Matthew 15:1-9
See: Matthew 22:29

Pretty bold if He didn't know the Scriptures.
Surely He knew His audience might challenge Him.

What makes you think he had "a thorough knowledge of scripture"?

Have I answered this question to your satisfaction?

It may be he was a keen observer of human nature,
but how does that correlate with scriptural knowledge
of any kind?

Have I answered this question to your satisfaction?


Lee, please recognize this. It was not my intent nor do I intend
to engage in a prolonged discussion of the Bible. I merely made
an observation about the meaning of the word "meek" which was
based on the writing of others. You have attempted to use that
as a launching pad for tangents I don't have the time to pursue.

Further, I don't feel your comments about Jeff were appropriate.
Jeff was not the subject of the posts. I think he attempted
to make some connection between the Deepwater Horizon and
"The Lost Horizon." I decided to explore the manner in which
the author, James Hilton, framed the conclusion, challenging
his use of "strong" and the meaning of "meek."

As has so often been the case in the past, the focus gets lost,
especially when someone chooses to engage in a little buffoonery,
filling the threads with a lot of foolish nonsense. I can
appreciate the humor, sometimes, and the light-hearted banter,
but it does make a more serious conversation difficult.




... It's only words, and words are all I have...


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Kevin,

Scripture? What scripture might that be?

"And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah.
And when He had opened the book,
He found the place where it was written..." See: Luke 4:17-21
"Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant
and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue
were fixed on Him."

The "book" was a scroll, and in Hebrew. Jesus spoke Aramaic,
not Hebrew. Also, Hebrew was a dead language, not spoken by anybody
in general conversation (much like Latin in the Catholic Church).

If He was illiterate and uneducated, how could He do these things?

A good memory retaining what one has heard certainly helps. You
might also want to ask why he closed the scroll, in the middle
of a sentence. And what the crowd tried to do to him afterwards.

"How does this Man know letters, having never studied?"
See: John 7:14-16

Like I said, having a good memory (and being a keen observer of human
nature) certainly helps. I don't know what gives you the bizarre idea
that only those who graduated from Ivy League schools are super smart
and capable of knowing anything about anything. The fact of the matter
is, one does not have to be book smart to be smart.

"And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them
in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself."
See: Luke 24:25-27

So somebody quoted a passage found in the Torah. How is that
evidence/proof that Jesus could read and write?

"I sat daily with you, teaching in the temple,
and you did not seize Me. But all this was done
that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled."
See: Matthew 26:53-56

A Master has wisdom, and does not need books to teach.

"Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father;
there is one who accuses you - Moses, in whom you trust."
See: John 5:39-47

Moses killed a guy. In cold blood. He was judge, jury, and
executioner. And Moses is the guy the Hebrews placed their trust
in. Before they became Jews. In Jesus' day, all Jews placed their
trust in the Mosaic Law (the Law of Moses). Even today, Jews place
their trust in that same law. But what has that got to do with
your argument that Jesus could read and write? You see, one of
the basic arguments Jesus made was for folks to place their trust
elsewhere. Not in any law, as laws are interpreted by man. And
for that, he was murdered. By those who had placed their trust
in Moses.

Continued to next message

* SLMR 2.1a * We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Continued from previous message

Uneducated? Illiterate? Unfamiliar with Scripture?
How could He advance an argument like this:
See: Matthew 5:17 See: Matthew 15:1-9 See: Matthew 22:29
Pretty bold if He didn't know the Scriptures.
Surely He knew His audience might challenge Him.

There is a difference between intelligence and being well-educated.
A third-grade drop-out might have far more intelligence than a
well-educated president of the United States. Put another way,
wisdom is not necessarily dependent on being book smart. And rarely
is. Could Jesus afford to go to the best schools? Very doubtful.
Remember, he came from a poor family. A very poor family...

What makes you think he had "a thorough knowledge of scripture"?

Have I answered this question to your satisfaction?

Where is the evidence/proof showing Jesus could read and write?
Speculation is not evidence. Circumstantial evidence is not proof.
The only writing of Jesus that is mentioned in the gospels is when
a woman was about to be stoned. Jesus squatted and drew doodles in
the sand, thus convincing the crowd not to stone the woman. He actually
had to do it twice, because some folks didn't get it the first time.
Drawing doodles in the sand is hardly what anybody would call reading
and writing real words in any language. Unless you consider stick
figures of women holding hands as being words.

It may be he was a keen observer of human nature, but how
does that correlate with scriptural knowledge of any kind?

Have I answered this question to your satisfaction?

Everybody likes to speculate. Will the Saints successfully
defend their NFL Championship? I certainly like to think so...

Lee, please recognize this. It was not my intent nor do I intend
to engage in a prolonged discussion of the Bible. I merely made
an observation about the meaning of the word "meek" which was
based on the writing of others. You have attempted to use that
as a launching pad for tangents I don't have the time to pursue.

There is much speculation as to what words mean, and do not mean.
The meaning of words changes over time. Sometimes totally replaced
with new, or other, words. Words are also often taken out of context
in an effort to swing the meaning from what a word/phrase really
means.

When it comes to the books of the Bible, things get even more
complicated. What we have are not translations, but transliterations. Transliterations of writings that no longer exist. Who wrote the
gospels? Nobody knows. Where are the original texts? They do not
exist. Each of the books were based on oral and written sources in
different languages, written by unknown authors. And then translated
to individual languages. That is what is called transliteration.
Furthermore, there is no single version that is used or accepted by
all. So what the hell do we know what the gospels say, or do not say?

We know even less, given the fact that only a handful were selected
to be included in what we call the Bible. Look at the New Testament.
A total of 27 books. Taken from a selection of at least 50 gospel
accounts, countless letters, and another 70 apocalypses. Which ones
tell the real story? The version we have been spoon-fed? And even
that version comes in many flavors...

Continued to next message

* SLMR 2.1a * We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Continued from previous message

Further, I don't feel your comments about Jeff were appropriate.
Jeff was not the subject of the posts. I think he attempted
to make some connection between the Deepwater Horizon and
"The Lost Horizon." I decided to explore the manner in which
the author, James Hilton, framed the conclusion, challenging
his use of "strong" and the meaning of "meek."

When I post a message on a bulletin board, I consider it as being
an occupational hazard. Others are free to criticize anything and
everything I post, no matter how nicely or harshly they want.

Why should Jeff's opinions, or anybody elses, be exempt from
criticism? Should everybody simply accept Jeff's view, as if it
was the gospel truth? You already know what I think of as being
the gospel truth. So you tell me.

As has so often been the case in the past, the focus gets lost, KG>especially when someone chooses to engage in a little buffoonery,
filling the threads with a lot of foolish nonsense. I can
appreciate the humor, sometimes, and the light-hearted banter,
but it does make a more serious conversation difficult.

Poking fun is a means of criticism. It can be cutting, it can
be supportive. It can be many things. Consider it as being a form
of constructive criticism, and you might actually learn a thing or
two.

--Lee


* SLMR 2.1a * We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

It may be he was a keen observer of human nature, but how
does that correlate with scriptural knowledge of any kind?

Have I answered this question to your satisfaction?

Everybody likes to speculate.

That's an answer.

Will the Saints successfully defend their NFL Championship?

Of course, you change the subject.



... I'm not on Facebook. That's someone else. It's not me.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Lee,

There is much speculation as to what words mean, and
do not mean. The meaning of words changes over time.
Sometimes totally replaced with new, or other, words.
Words are also often taken out of context in an effort to
swing the meaning from what a word/phrase really means.

We can run with this.


Let's!






... Poets, priests and politicians... have words...

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Kevin,

It may be he was a keen observer of human nature, but how
does that correlate with scriptural knowledge of any kind?

Have I answered this question to your satisfaction?

Everybody likes to speculate.

That's an answer.

Of course it is. Maybe not a very good answer, but it is an answer.

Will the Saints successfully defend their NFL Championship?

Of course, you change the subject.

The only difference between what Evans wrote and what I wrote
is that Evans speculated what might have been and I speculated
what might be. "I like to think so" is an appropriate answer
to both questions.

Evans -

Q: "Could Jesus read and/or write?"
A: "I like to think so."

Lee -

Q: "Will the Saints successfully defend their NFL Championship?"
A: "I like to think so."

... I'm not on Facebook. That's someone else. It's not me.

Are you sure?

--Lee


* SLMR 2.1a * "Men willingly believe what they wish." - Julius Caesar

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Kevin,

There is much speculation as to what words mean, and
do not mean. The meaning of words changes over time.
Sometimes totally replaced with new, or other, words.
Words are also often taken out of context in an effort to
swing the meaning from what a word/phrase really means.

We can run with this.

In which direction should we go?

Up
Down
Left
Right
Sideways
Diagonal
Upside Down
Rightside Up
Nowhere In Particular

Let's!

First we gotta find a quarterback who can throw the ball...

... Poets, priests and politicians... have words...

Jim Morrison of the Doors was the greatest poet of them all.
Jim Morrison of the Doors was the greatest sex god of them all.
Jim Morrison of the Doors was the, well, would have been...

--Lee


* SLMR 2.1a * "I am the lizard king! I can do anything!" - Jim Morrison

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Lee,

You responded to my tagline...

...I'm not on Facebook. That's someone else. It's not me.

Are you sure?

Allow me to rephrase. I've never had a Facebook account.



...No, no, no, it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're lookin' for.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Lee,

New headings on these posts...

There is much speculation as to what words mean, and
do not mean. The meaning of words changes over time.
Sometimes totally replaced with new, or other, words.
Words are also often taken out of context in an effort to
swing the meaning from what a word/phrase really means.

We can run with this.

In which direction should we go?

Up
Down
Left
Right
Sideways
Diagonal
Upside Down
Rightside Up
Nowhere In Particular

How about inside?

Let's get small. Let's get tall.

Let's get big, BIG, BIGGER.



... But I would not feel so all alone...

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Kevin,

You responded to my tagline...

Yes.

...I'm not on Facebook. That's someone else. It's not me.

Are you sure?

Allow me to rephrase.

Okay.

I've never had a Facebook account.

Are you sure?

...No, no, no, it ain't me, babe.

You don't know that.

It ain't me you're lookin' for.

If you are not you, then who are you?

The thing about social networks is that you never know who is,
and who is not, a real person, fake person, duplicate person, or
what. A blip on somebody's computer monitor is all it is. And
yet some folks think it is real. Gosh. When are people going to
grow up, and understand what John Lennon and the Beatles said so
many years ago?

"Nothing is real...and nothing to get hungabout."

Strawberry Fields forever.

--Lee


* SLMR 2.1a * My name is Lee! I know Kung Fu!

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Kevin,

New headings on these posts...

There is much speculation as to what words mean, and
do not mean. The meaning of words changes over time.
Sometimes totally replaced with new, or other, words.
Words are also often taken out of context in an effort to
swing the meaning from what a word/phrase really means.

We can run with this.

In which direction should we go?

Up
Down
Left
Right
Sideways
Diagonal
Upside Down
Rightside Up
Nowhere In Particular

How about inside?

Mad Dogs and Englishmen out in the noonday sun.
Well, we know what happened next.
Some oil well in the Gulf of Mexico had a blowout...

Is that better than outside?

Let's get small.

Uh, I dunno about that...

Let's get tall.

Tall is okay. But only for Americans.
Frenchies prefer short people.

Let's get big, BIG, BIGGER.

Women really do know what they want.
And men know it. Especially Long Dong Silver.
Uh. Maybe we'd best not go there...

... But I would not feel so all alone...

Take it easy. The Eagles did. But them seven women still
would not leave them alone...

--Lee


* SLMR 2.1a * "Give yourself over to absolute pleasure."-Frank'N'Furter

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Lee,

In which direction should we go?

Up
Down
Left
Right
Sideways
Diagonal
Upside Down
Rightside Up
Nowhere In Particular

How about inside?

Mad Dogs and Englishmen out in the noonday sun.

Noel. But... in the 70s it was Joe, Leon, Bobby, Rita...
and many others. Do you like Leon?

Well, we know what happened next.

A tour?

The 70s. Then the 80s. Then the 90s.
Something came after that.

Is that better than outside?

I was suggesting an inward journey.
A little contemplation of what might be.... within.

Let's get small.

Uh, I dunno about that...

You'd have to talk to Steve about it.
He's a wild and crazy guy.

Let's get tall.

Tall is okay.

Then let's be GIANTS !!!

Let's get big, BIG, BIGGER.

Women really do know what they want.

Until she changes her mind. Which can happen twice
before you figure out why. IF you can figure out why.
Sometimes she doesn't know.

And men know it.

She reminds you if you forget.

Or she doesn't. Then one day..

INCOMING!


Duck and cover!




... big Big Biiggggg BIG BIGGER



--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

Hello Lee,

I've never had a Facebook account.

Are you sure?

I have never knowingly opened a Facebook account.
I do not knowingly maintain any pages on Facebook.
Of this, I am sure. Do you have doubts, Lee?

If you are not you, then who are you?

That's an interesting "if." You had a point?
Maybe it's on the top of your head, unlike Oblio,
who seemed to lack a point... for a while.

The thing about social networks is that you
never know who is, and who is not, a real person,
fake person, duplicate person, or what.

I've been thinking something along those lines about
you almost since the first time I encountered you.

The tailgater on Facebook has a cute friend.
What's your story, Lee? Do you have a companion?
A partner? A mate? Real or fake, Lee?

"Nothing is real...and nothing to get hungabout"

The inhabitants of The 13th Floor were caught up in
trying to understand what was real and what was not.

Are you a resident of The 13th Floor, Lee?
Or merely a visitor?

Anyway, back before the turn of the millennium,
we're sitting on the floor in a circle, in a room
adjacent to a New Age Book store. Seems like
there was 12 or so of us... and we're gathered to
discuss "A Course in Miracles." The teacher begins
to talk about perception. Then he explains the
meaning of "Maya" as presented in the course:

"There is no world"

"All is an illusion"

"Nothing so blinding as perception of form"

He talked some about God, separation, and so forth,
then at some point he stopped. He took the paper cup
from which he had been drinking and put it in front
of him on the floor. He talked about the outside of
the cup. The inside of the cup. And the cup itself.
Then he asked each of us what we saw when we looked
at the cup. When he got to me, I simply asked...


"What cup?"






... If only you believe like I believe....

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)