I haven't seen much traffic here.

Wazzup? Is Ross censuring this echo too?

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Hello Björn,

I haven't seen much traffic here.

Sorry about that. There was a conspiracy
keeping me about. And away. From it all.

Wazzup? Is Ross censuring this echo too?

Everything is a conspiracy.
And everyone plays a part.
Whether knowingly, or unknowingly.
Willingly, or unwillingly.

Will have details on new conspiracies arriving shortly.
Including some that are absolutely out of this world.
Please feel free to contribute.
Add your own conspiracy.
Whether ancient or modern, sensical or nonsensical.
The world is an oyster, who will find the pearl?

Lee Lofaso
Moderator, Consprcy echo

--- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb
* Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)

Wazzup? Is Ross censuring this echo too?

Everything is a conspiracy.

Yeah, well, the funny thing is that your message made it through Ross' system to Finland, while mine wasn't -- posted from the same system and with the same path: 203/2 0 123/500 140/1. Go figure...

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Hello Bjorn,

Wazzup? Is Ross censuring this echo too?

Everything is a conspiracy.

Yeah, well, the funny thing is that your message made it
through Ross' system to Finland, while mine wasn't --
posted from the same system and with the same path: 203/2 0
123/500 140/1. Go figure...

This one bypasses Ross' system completely, as well as Europe,
coming from Australia. :)

--Lee


* SLMR 2.1a * All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)

coming from Australia. :)

This one too.

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Wazzup? Is Ross censuring this echo too?

I suspect you mean Cassell.

Yeah, he owns FIDO now.

And, Yeah, he likes to fuck with people for no reason sometimes, as well. Whenever the power trip hits, eh!

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely...
or whatever power people can find to exercise in their
tiny minds and "elite" venues.

It's, as always, pathetic.

Fido ALWAYS worked best with the least authoritarianism.!
That's why it's nothing now.

Stupid kids had to stomp upon freedom!

It seems the Tea Baggers might have started here!\

Stupidity ALWAYS rules the "ruling class" of moderation/moderators!

People that DARE tell others how it must be done!

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:6.0.1) Gecko/20110830 Thunderbird/6.
* Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)

Steve Kemp wrote to Björn Felten <=-

Wazzup? Is Ross censuring this echo too?

I suspect you mean Cassell.

Yeah, he owns FIDO now.

Ok, I'll bite. How does one person own Fido? Or at least screw it up?





--kW

kurt weiske │ realitycheckbbs.org
│ kweiske@realitycheckbbs.org
│ 1:218/700@fidonet


--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS | http://www.realitycheckbbs.org (1:218/700)

Wazzup? Is Ross censuring this echo too?

I suspect you mean Cassell.

Yeah, he owns FIDO now.

Ok, I'll bite. How does one person own Fido? Or at least
screw it up?

By being a key middleman between significant sysops.

He refuses to recognize moderator decisions arbitrarily, and can
interfere as he wishes.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Hate is a black hole...the more it consumes the more it can suck in.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
* Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)

Hello Bob,

Wazzup? Is Ross censuring this echo too?

I suspect you mean Cassell.

Yeah, he owns FIDO now.

Ok, I'll bite. How does one person own Fido? Or at least
screw it up?

By being a key middleman between significant sysops.

He refuses to recognize moderator decisions arbitrarily, and can
interfere as he wishes.

A conspiracy, by definition, consists of two or more people.
Except in one instance, which is a technical matter for legal
proceedings.

One could call the present scenario a clique, the players
being a trio of actors of which Ross is one of them. If you
allow them to ruin your day, they will gladly do so. But that
does not mean you have to let them ruin your day. Now, if you
like bad acting, then I say go for it. Play their game. On
the other hand, if you do not like bad acting, then maybe it
is best to play your own game rather than theirs. That way,
if they want to play, they have to play on your terms rather
than theirs. And they won't like that. Which is why they
will rant and rave until they run out of breath (or cyberspace).

Hate is a black hole...the more it consumes the more it can suck in.

A spinning black hole.
Sucking it all in, and spewing it all out.
Kind of like a vacuum cleaner.
Picks up the dirt.
Redeposits it elsewhere.
Only in this case, into an alternate universe.
And that is where the real fun begins...

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb
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One could call the present scenario a clique, the players
being a trio of actors of which Ross is one of them.

Conspiring to a hostile take-over of one of the most prominent echoes in fidonet -- FIDONEWS, and the associated e-zine -- seemingly takes more from the
conspirators than they could handle.

Even though I think that you, Lee, was a wee bit over the top in your comment to Gary when he gave up just a few of weeks after having been appointed
Editor Puppy by the Troika, I can understand your frustration, given the way you have been treated by said Troika over the years. With Ross' absolutely appalling comment to you a month or so ago -- and the rest of the cheering Z1-gang thinking it was just "humor" --
as an absolute low.

If you allow them to ruin your day, they will gladly do so.

But we will not let them, will we? I'm happy to see that not all USAians are
like the NAB Troika expect them to be. I've seen numerous comments telling the Troika what they think about their actions, and it makes me believe that there's still hope for large parts of zone 1.

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Hello Björn,

One could call the present scenario a clique, the players
being a trio of actors of which Ross is one of them.

Conspiring to a hostile take-over of one of the most prominent
echoes in fidonet -- FIDONEWS, and the associated e-zine --
seemingly takes more from the conspirators than they could handle.

Although it may appear to some to be a "hostile take-over", it is
more like the creation of a newsgroup. And not a particularly popular
one, at that.

Fidonet echos are designed to allow participants to participate -
without ever having to ask for permission from a "moderator" to do
so. Any so-called "echo" that fails to uphold that standard is not
a fidonet echo.

Even though I think that you, Lee, was a wee bit over the top in
your comment to Gary when he gave up just a few of weeks after
having been appointed Editor Puppy by the Troika, I can understand
your frustration, given the way you have been treated by said Troika
over the years.

Gary resorted to a classic argumentum ad misericordiam - an appeal
to pity/appeal to sympathy. I merely called him on it, in a nice way,
calling him a "pawn" of the so-called "troika". Had I wanted to be
more direct, I would have called him a "toadie." Which is, btw, the
more accurate term.

For those unfamiliar with this logical fallacy (appeal to pity),
it is an attempt to gain agreement by sympathy or empathy. It has
absolutely nothing to do with evidence. "Please feel so sorry for
me because I murdered my parents and am now an orphan." That sort
of warped logic. Gary wants to show the world he has a deserving
cause. He wants others to put themselves in his place, to put
themselves in his shoes and see his own sorry plight. None of what
he said has to be true. He could have made it all up. And even
if all of what he did say is true, it makes no difference. None
of it has anything to do with what was done to you (and the fidonet
community) by the troika consisting of Ross Cassell, Janis Kracht,
and Bob Seaborn.

The form of the "argument" goes like this -

1. P is presented, with the intent to create pity.
2. Therefore claim C is true.

Kind of silly, isn't it? Silly because pity does not serve as
evidence. And yet, that is exactly what Gary is attempting to do.

I'll make it even more clear to you, and others, with this example -

"You must accept that 1 + 1 = 97, after all I'm dying..."

Well, golly gee. You might have pity on me because I'm dying.
But that would hardly make my claim of 1 + 1 = 97 being true, now
would it?

You will also find the troika using a strange variant of this
logical fallacy, sometimes found on Usenet, that goes like this -
One of them refuses to answer questions about their claims, on
grounds that the person who is asking those questions is being
mean and has hurt their feelings. Like a deer caught in the
headlights, they will refuse to answer the questions, and maybe
tell others how wrong the person who asked those questions is
for having asked those questions. Always without answering
the questions.

With Ross' absolutely appalling comment to you a month or so
ago -- and the rest of the cheering Z1-gang thinking it was just
"humor" -- as an absolute low.

Ross often resorts to ad hominems, as he has nothing else to
support his claims (whether real or imagined). It is more like
argument by vehemence than anything else, as if being the loudest
and most obnoxious person in fidoland is always right. Trial
lawyers are taught early on how to deal with this, the rule being -

If you have the facts, pound on the facts.
If you have the law, pound on the law.
If you don't have either, pound on the table.

I say let Ross keep pounding on that table.

If you allow them to ruin your day, they will gladly do so.

But we will not let them, will we?

I'm having fun with this. :)

I'm happy to see that not all USAians are like the NAB Troika
expect them to be. I've seen numerous comments telling the Troika
what they think about their actions, and it makes me believe that
there's still hope for large parts of zone 1.

Most sysops in zone 1 are not aware of what is going on in regards
to the Fidonews echo. Some who are aware have left fido completely.
Others refuse to make the echo available for those who wish to
participate. But here is the reality of what Fidonews echo should
be -

The Fidonews is published by the entire fidonet community.
Not by any particular individual or small group of individuals
within or outside of the fidonet community. The Fidonews echo
consists of the entire fidonet community, regardless of "zone",
meaning there are no zones dividing the fidonet community.

The troika consisting of Ross Cassell, Janis Kracht, and Bob
Seaborn have been automatically excommunicated from fidonet (as
noted in P4) due to their actions. Therefore, their "fidonews"
echo is not affiliated with fidonet in any way, shape, or form.

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb
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within or outside of the fidonet community. The Fidonews echo
consists of the entire fidonet community, regardless of "zone",
meaning there are no zones dividing the fidonet community.

Ever since I first became editor and moderator, almost ten years ago, I've stated clearly, numerous times, that it is an echo of the people, by the people, for the people -- not of the Troika, by the Troika, for the Troika.

The users decide what they want to see in the echo, and I will never try to influence their choices. To the big dismay for the Khontrol freaks in the Troika. If they didn't like it, they could easily vote with their feet -- but that wasn't good enough for them; they wanted it all. All the collateral damage
was unimportant.

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Hello Björn,

within or outside of the fidonet community. The Fidonews echo
consists of the entire fidonet community, regardless of "zone",
meaning there are no zones dividing the fidonet community.

Ever since I first became editor and moderator, almost ten years ago, I've stated clearly, numerous times, that it is an echo of the people, by the people, for the people -- not of the Troika, by the Troika, for the

Troika.

The users decide what they want to see in the echo, and I will never try

to

influence their choices. To the big dismay for the Khontrol freaks in the Troika. If they didn't like it, they could easily vote with their feet -- but that wasn't good enough for them; they wanted it all. All the collateral damage was unimportant.

Exactly! And that is the true spirit of democracy in action!
"What do the people want?" That is the question what should always
be asked, and to be remembered. A moderator should always seek to
help facilitate debate, not to hinder it.

Also, a word of note. Some folks get "freedom of speech" and
"freedom of the press" confused. The two terms are not synonymous.
The First Amendment of the US Constitution states four freedoms -

1. Religion
2. Freedom of Speech and of the Press
3. The Right to Peaceably Assemble
4. The Right to Petition the Government for Redress (correction)
of Grievances

All of these rights concern freedom of the mind and conscience.

Let's see what you can come up with in regards to Fidonews (and/or
other echos) and Fidonet. All are welcome to chime in as well with
their own thoughts.

Could be an interesting thread. ;)

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb
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Re: The Fidonews saga goes on
By: Lee Lofaso to Björn Felten on Wed Sep 14 2011 05:45 pm

The troika consisting of Ross Cassell, Janis Kracht, and Bob
Seaborn have been automatically excommunicated from fidonet (as
noted in P4) due to their actions. Therefore, their "fidonews"
echo is not affiliated with fidonet in any way, shape, or form.

Really? Odd, since they still show up in my nodelist - and the word "excommunicated" doesn't show up anywhere in P4.

Please clarify.
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
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Re: The Fidonews saga goes on
By: Kurt Weiske to Lee Lofaso on Wed Sep 14 2011 07:50 pm

Really? Odd, since they still show up in my nodelist - and the word "excommunicated" doesn't show up anywhere in P4.

My bad on #2 - I was reading a truncated version of P4 - and it's been years since I read the whole thing. #1 stands.
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
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the word "excommunicated" doesn't show up anywhere in P4.

What version is that? In my version (4.07) I have "2.1.12 Excommunication".

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
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Björn Felten wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

the word "excommunicated" doesn't show up anywhere in P4.

What version is that? In my version (4.07) I have "2.1.12 Excommunication".

The version that was truncated before section 2. :)


kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
realitycheckBBS | http://realitycheckbbs.org




kurt weiske │ realitycheckbbs.org
│ kweiske@realitycheckbbs.org
│ 1:218/700@fidonet


--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS | http://www.realitycheckbbs.org (1:218/700)

wrote:

Also, a word of note. Some folks get "freedom of speech" and
"freedom of the press" confused. The two terms are not synonymous.
The First Amendment of the US Constitution states four freedoms -

1. Religion
2. Freedom of Speech and of the Press
3. The Right to Peaceably Assemble
4. The Right to Petition the Government for Redress (correction)
of Grievances

All of these rights concern freedom of the mind and conscience.

Let's see what you can come up with in regards to Fidonews (and/or
other echos) and Fidonet. All are welcome to chime in as well with
their own thoughts.

I'll chime in....

I am not familiar with any ownership rights that FidoNet may have (guess I need to read the docs again), however freedom of speech is not a right on Fidonet or any other public but privately owned computer network. Example:
I run a BBS, it is a public forum, however it belongs to me and I dictate policy.. Same thing goes when posting messages on any website..the websites owner decides what language is allowed and who is allowed to view or post on it. My BBS is part of the FidoNet network, I agreed when I signed up to follow the policies as set forth by the FidoNet administration and as such
the users of my BBS are bound by that same agreement. Bottom line...
Freedom of speech is not guaranteed on the private property of others...be
it their backyard or thier computer network forums.

Could be an interesting thread. ;)

I'm sure someone is going to disagree.... and they do have the right to do so... but, if the Moderator says to cease, we cease. We've all agreed to FidoNet's policy. Through our use of this system alone, whether we've read the rule or not, we agree to abide by the rules as set forth in the FidoNet policy4 document..

Do you agree?

That's just my 2 cents...You can keep the Change!

--

Nicholas Loch (Fat Rastus) | Electronic Warfare BBS
telnet://ewbbs.synchro.net | http://ewbbs.fatrastus.com
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Linux
* Origin: Electronic Warfare BBS|Telnet://ewbbs.synchro.net (1:227/201)

...

The users decide what they want to see in the echo, and
I will never try to influence their choices. To the big
dismay for the Khontrol freaks in the Troika. If they
didn't like it, they could easily vote with their feet
-- but that wasn't good enough for them; they wanted it
all. All the collateral damage was unimportant.

I would amend that to exclude personal attacks. When personal
attacks are allowed personal attacks take over.


BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Chain Tagline. Now stolen [268] times. Add 1 as stolen.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
* Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)

...

The users decide what they want to see in the echo, and I will never try

to

influence their choices. To the big dismay for the Khontrol freaks in the
Troika. If they didn't like it, they could easily vote with their feet --
but that wasn't good enough for them; they wanted it all. All the
collateral damage was unimportant.

Exactly! And that is the true spirit of democracy in
action! "What do the people want?" That is the question
what should always be asked, and to be remembered. A
moderator should always seek to help facilitate debate, not
to hinder it.

I would amend that to exclude personal attacks. When personal
attacks are allowed personal attacks take over.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... The magic of Windows: Turns a Pentium into an XT, instantly.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
* Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)

...

I am not familiar with any ownership rights that FidoNet
may have (guess I need to read the docs again), however
freedom of speech is not a right on Fidonet or any other
public but privately owned computer network. Example: I
run a BBS, it is a public forum, however it belongs to me
and I dictate policy.. Same thing goes when posting
messages on any website..the websites owner decides what
language is allowed and who is allowed to view or post on

That is how I learned the rules for echos. They are private
property of the moderators.

I'm sure someone is going to disagree.... and they do have
the right to do so... but, if the Moderator says to cease,
we cease. We've all agreed to

Ross Cassell does not agree with that. I have had problems with
some banned from the Debate echo who refuse to accept that rule.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Paradox is your friend.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
* Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)

I would amend that to exclude personal attacks. When personal
attacks are allowed personal attacks take over.

No need to. Libel and defamation is illegal in all civilized countries, and the law always supersedes any echo rules.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)

Hello Nicholas,

Nicholas Loch -> Lee Lofaso expressed precisely :

Also, a word of note. Some folks get "freedom of speech" and
"freedom of the press" confused. The two terms are not synonymous.
The First Amendment of the US Constitution states four freedoms -

1. Religion
2. Freedom of Speech and of the Press
3. The Right to Peaceably Assemble
4. The Right to Petition the Government for Redress (correction)
of Grievances

All of these rights concern freedom of the mind and conscience.

Let's see what you can come up with in regards to Fidonews (and/or
other echos) and Fidonet. All are welcome to chime in as well with
their own thoughts.

I'll chime in....

The sound of many chimes...

I am not familiar with any ownership rights that FidoNet may have (guess I need to read the docs again), however freedom of speech is not a right on Fidonet or any other public but privately owned computer network.

Example:

I run a BBS, it is a public forum, however it belongs to me and I dictate policy.. Same thing goes when posting messages on any website..the

websites

owner decides what language is allowed and who is allowed to view or post

on

it. My BBS is part of the FidoNet network, I agreed when I signed up to follow the policies as set forth by the FidoNet administration and as such the users of my BBS are bound by that same agreement. Bottom line... Freedom of speech is not guaranteed on the private property of others...be it their backyard or thier computer network forums.

That would be nice if all FidoNet administrators/sysops were to abide
by the very policies they expect everybody else to. Most notably P4.
However, certain administrators and sysops have chosen to ignore P4,
treating the document as nothing more than a "goddamn piece of paper"
- thus placing themselves "above the fidolaw".

You mentioned "ownership rights". Here is my view -

Ownership of FidoNet is (and should remain) in the hands of the entire
fidonet community - sysops and non-sysops alike. FidoNet was created
by sysops, and administered by sysops, as it should be. Because those
very sysops who created FidoNet also invited non-sysops to participate,
those sysops (as well as those sysops who joined FidoNet afterwards)
have welcomed all as being part of the fidonet community.

Now for my opinion on freedom of speech, in regards to FidoNet -

Note - sysops have absolute right over their own system/computer.
That is a different issue. After all, sysops can choose to invite
others, or choose not to invite others, to use their system.

The term "freedom of speech" is a relative right, not an absolute
right. However, it is not discriminatory, with some having more rights
than others. IOW, all within the group have the same rights. But can
differ from echo to echo. For example -

* Technical echoes require strict rules in order for discussions to remain on topic.
* General chat echoes need only a very loose set of rules, as topics
can vary greatly.
* Designated flame echoes have no rules, as there can be no such thing
as a flame echo with rules (contradiction of terms).

There are differences between fidonet echoes and newsgroups or usenet -

A fidonet echo has a moderator, who posts a set of rules for that
echo. Or in the case of designated flame echoes, no set of rules.
Participants and lurkers are invited, and all are welcome to send
and receive messages without having to ask for prior permission
from the moderator. Messages are posted for all to see, uncensored
by the moderator.

A newsgroup has a moderator who pre-selects who can and cannot send
and/or receive messages in the forum. In order to participate, an
individual has to "subscribe" to the newsgroup and get permission from
the moderator to post messages. Messages can also be deleted by the
moderator before they are actually posted to the group.

Could be an interesting thread. ;)

I'm sure someone is going to disagree....

In FidoNet? You gotta be kiddin' me. :)

and they do have the right to do so...

According to some, it is "my way or the highway."

but, if the Moderator says to cease, we cease.

Some do. Others don't.

We've all agreed to FidoNet's policy.

Just because all sysops agreed to abide by FidoNet's policy (P4)
does not mean that all sysops actually abide by that policy.

Through our use of this system alone, whether we've read
the rule or not, we agree to abide by the rules as set forth in the

FidoNet

policy4 document..

In order to own a node, a sysop must agree to abide by P4.
However, some sysops have chosen to ignore P4. And that means,
according to P4, those sysops no longer own a valid node.
Automatic excommunication is the term used in P4.

Do you agree?

Some sysops believe in P4, just as some folks believe in the
US Constitution. But what happens when sysops no longer believe
in P4, or when folks no longer believe in the US Constitution?
The document is no longer relevant, and becomes meaningless.
"Just a goddamn piece of paper", as a former president is
alleged to have said.

That's just my 2 cents...You can keep the Change!

Why are pennies still being made? It costs more than a penny
to make a penny. So what is the logic? And what the heck can
you buy with a penny, anyway?

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb
* Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)

Hello Bob,

BOB KLAHN -> LEE LOFASO was thinking very hard :

...

The users decide what they want to see in the echo, and I will never

try

to

influence their choices. To the big dismay for the Khontrol freaks

in the

Troika. If they didn't like it, they could easily vote with their

feet --

but that wasn't good enough for them; they wanted it all. All the
collateral damage was unimportant.

Exactly! And that is the true spirit of democracy in
action! "What do the people want?" That is the question
what should always be asked, and to be remembered. A
moderator should always seek to help facilitate debate, not
to hinder it.

I would amend that to exclude personal attacks. When personal
attacks are allowed personal attacks take over.

Designated flame echoes must allow personal attacks, as there
can be no rules (with one exception) in such echoes. The only rule
that exists (whether stated or unstated) in all fidonet echoes is
"no illegal activity", or words to that effect. That would include
in designated flame echoes.

However, I would tend to agree with your original statement, as
noted in P4 the implication being if personal attacks are allowed
by some then personal attacks are allowed for all meaning in effect
for all practical purposes that echo is or has become a designated
flame echo.

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb
* Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)

Hello Björn,

I would amend that to exclude personal attacks. When personal
attacks are allowed personal attacks take over.

No need to. Libel and defamation is illegal in all civilized
countries, and the law always supersedes any echo rules.

Of course. But personal attacks are not necessarily libel
or defamation. The question is, should personal attacks be
allowed in an echo? And if so, under what circumstances?
In a designated flame echo, personal attacks are the norm.
But then, participants enter at their own risk, knowing
what to expect.

But not all echoes are designated flame echoes. Nor are all
echoes intended to be designated flame echoes. So when does an
echo become a designated flame echo? When personal attacks are
allowed. If personal attacks are allowed for some, personal
attacks are allowed for all. It's (implied) in P4.

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb
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Of course. But personal attacks are not necessarily libel
or defamation.

I beg to differ. Maybe it's just another huge cultural difference? Over here, personal attacks in the written form (such as in fidonet) is always judged as libel (or similar -- we have a wide variety of this in our law books).

And that's just it. It's so difficult to judge what is this and what is that, it's nothing that should be left to megalomaniac echomail moderators to decide. Should the need ever arise, it should be left to the professionals in the judicial system to make the decision.

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I would amend that to exclude personal attacks. When personal
attacks are allowed personal attacks take over.

No need to. Libel and defamation is illegal in all
civilized countries, and the law always supersedes any
echo rules.

Civilized? Where's that?

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Why is "bra" singular and "panties" plural?
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
* Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)

Civilized? Where's that?

LOL!

Have I told you that I love you, Bob? No, no, no, not that way -- I'm a happily married man with two great kids. one a doctor of medicine and one a civil engineer -- but as a very interesting fidonet contributor!

I hope that you can keep up your fidonet presence for yet another bundle of year, Bob!

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Civilized? Where's that?

LOL!

Have I told you that I love you, Bob? No, no, no, not
that way -- I'm a happily married man with two great
kids. one a doctor of medicine and one a civil engineer
-- but as a very interesting fidonet contributor!

I hope that you can keep up your fidonet presence for
yet another bundle of year, Bob!

IF it's worth it. Getting less so all the time.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... As inevitable as death, taxes, and America On-Line disks.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
* Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)

Ross Cassell does not agree with that. I have had problems with
some banned from the Debate echo who refuse to accept that rule.

Ross jumped in like a blind drunk and started "cleaning up" FIDO a while back when FIDO didn't need cleaning!

EXACTLY when it was BOOMING, actually!

He did what Steve Q. did to HolySmoke...he destroyed it!

HolySmoke was BOOMING and then Steve Q. "woke up" as mod and stopped the 400-500 posts a day!

What the fuck?!

Then comes Cassell, taking over multiple echoes.
Pulling the same "rules".

He's a power hungry asshole that has helped destroy Fido! Tis' true.

Seriously, there has to be only...maybe, 200 Fido people left.
(look at the stats).

HE DID THAT!

He THINKS he's doing good though.

Like anti-Choice people think they are doing good.
How anti-Porn people think they are doing good.
Like people that believe you must "find Jesus" think they are doing good.

No matter what anyone else believes. Ross is CORRECT!

God-like powers aren't self correcting though.

He is watching us...and we WILL PAY!

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.
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Ross Cassell does not agree with that. I have had problems with
some banned from the Debate echo who refuse to accept that rule.

Ross jumped in like a blind drunk and started "cleaning up" FIDO a while

back

when FIDO didn't need cleaning!

EXACTLY when it was BOOMING, actually!

He did what Steve Q. did to HolySmoke...he destroyed it!

HolySmoke was BOOMING and then Steve Q. "woke up" as mod and stopped the 400-500 posts a day!

What the fuck?!

Then comes Cassell, taking over multiple echoes.
Pulling the same "rules".

He's a power hungry asshole that has helped destroy Fido! Tis' true.

Seriously, there has to be only...maybe, 200 Fido people left.
(look at the stats).

HE DID THAT!

He THINKS he's doing good though.

I can improve naught upon this post but to observe your error above
wherein you state, "he thinks."
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
* Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)