• FTS-1 and FTS-4

    From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to All on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 15:51:04
    Sorry, the two previous messages look like shit. Here are the actual documents:

    http://eljaco.se/FILES/FTSC/FTS-0001.017%20--%20RFC.txt

    and

    http://eljaco.se/FILES/FTSC/FTS-0004.002%20--%20RFC.txt




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  • From Rob Swindell to Björn Felten on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 10:59:22
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Björn Felten to All on Tue Nov 06 2018 03:51 pm

    Sorry, the two previous messages look like shit. Here are the actual documents:

    http://eljaco.se/FILES/FTSC/FTS-0001.017%20--%20RFC.txt

    If FTS-1 were to be replaced with one or more new documents, I don't see why the "Stored Message" (what you just call "the Message" in your revision) should be defined. Stored Messages are not sent between nodes and really don't belong in the same document that defines "the" packet format (imho).
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Rob Swindell on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 21:05:10
    If FTS-1 were to be replaced with one or more new documents, I don't see why
    the "Stored Message" (what you just call "the Message" in your revision) should
    be defined. Stored Messages are not sent between nodes and really don't belong
    in the same document that defines "the" packet format (imho).

    You are correct about the "stored message", but that's not what's defined. It's the individual messages within a pkt-file, not how messages are stored in various BBS-specific databases.

    You probably need to program for FTN in order to fully understand the definitions in FTS-1.



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  • From Rob Swindell to Björn Felten on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 12:12:20
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Björn Felten to Rob Swindell on Tue Nov 06 2018 09:05 pm

    If FTS-1 were to be replaced with one or more new documents, I don't see why
    the "Stored Message" (what you just call "the Message" in your revision) should
    be defined. Stored Messages are not sent between nodes and really don't belong
    in the same document that defines "the" packet format (imho).

    You are correct about the "stored message", but that's not what's defined. It's the individual messages within a pkt-file, not how messages are stored in various BBS-specific databases.

    In your document (http://eljaco.se/FILES/FTSC/FTS-0001.017%20--%20RFC.txt), you have defined "The message format" (section 2a) which corresponds with the "Stored Message" defined in FTS-1.

    The individual messages within a packet ("a pkt-file") are what are called "Packed Messages" (in both your document and FTS-1) and is a different thing.

    Packed Messages are sent between FTN nodes, Stored Messages are not.

    You probably need to program for FTN in order to fully understand the definitions in FTS-1.

    I agree. I've been doing that for about over 25 years now. You?
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Rob Swindell on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 21:41:51
    In your document (http://eljaco.se/FILES/FTSC/FTS-0001.017%20--%20RFC.txt), you
    have defined "The message format" (section 2a) which corresponds with the "Stored Message" defined in FTS-1.

    If I missed anything from the original FTS-1, that was really just the README file for the ConfMail tosser/scanner, I'd say it's a good catch by you and I stand corrected. ConfMail stored the messages in MSG-format, one message per *.MSG file.

    As stated, it was an RFC.

    Packed Messages are sent between FTN nodes, Stored Messages are not.

    Yeah, that's what I was saying.

    I agree. I've been doing that for about over 25 years now. You?

    More like 30. All of it PD and available, with source code, from my BBS at http://eljaco.se/FILES





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  • From Rob Swindell to Björn Felten on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 13:01:43
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Björn Felten to Rob Swindell on Tue Nov 06 2018 09:41 pm

    In your document (http://eljaco.se/FILES/FTSC/FTS-0001.017%20--%20RFC.txt), you
    have defined "The message format" (section 2a) which corresponds with the "Stored Message" defined in FTS-1.

    If I missed anything from the original FTS-1, that was really just the README file for the ConfMail tosser/scanner, I'd say it's a good catch by you and I stand corrected. ConfMail stored the messages in MSG-format, one message per *.MSG file.

    As stated, it was an RFC.

    Packed Messages are sent between FTN nodes, Stored Messages are not.

    Yeah, that's what I was saying.

    Right. And what I originally said was that the definition of "Stored Messages" really doesn't belong in any new FTS-1 replacement document(s) - if that were to happen.

    The "Stored Message" (so-called .msg file) format is good to be defined in a public document for software inter-operability on the systems that use it (still), but it's certainly not a requirement for FTN communication.
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Rob Swindell on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 22:02:12
    you have defined "The message format" (section 2a) which corresponds with
    the
    "Stored Message" defined in FTS-1.

    Taking a second look at it -- four years later -- I can only agree with you.
    The entire section 2a should be moved down to make it clear that it's actually the proprietary *.MSG storage format definition.

    Albeit it's pretty much standard as a kinda fall-back it's not as obvious as
    it ought to be.




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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Rob Swindell on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 22:06:11
    but it's certainly not a requirement for FTN communication.

    Absolutely correct. Thanks!



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  • From Rob Swindell to Björn Felten on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 13:12:06
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Björn Felten to Rob Swindell on Tue Nov 06 2018 10:02 pm

    you have defined "The message format" (section 2a) which corresponds with
    the
    "Stored Message" defined in FTS-1.

    Taking a second look at it -- four years later -- I can only agree with you.
    The entire section 2a should be moved down to make it clear that it's actually the proprietary *.MSG storage format definition.

    Albeit it's pretty much standard as a kinda fall-back it's not as obvious as
    it ought to be.

    I agree its definitely "a standard", but it's not really a network standard. So sure, it belongs in an FTSC document, just not the same document that defines required packet format(s).

    FTS-1 could be split up into probably 3 or 4 documents, at least, and some of those resulting documents would not really be relevant to the network as it operates today.
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Rob Swindell on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 22:33:00
    FTS-1 could be split up into probably 3 or 4 documents, at least, and
    some of
    those resulting documents would not really be relevant to the network as
    it
    operates today.

    Yes indeed. We really have to let go of all the old shit and think ahead, with new programmers in mind. Having a gazillion documents doesn't really encourage new programmers, it should be easy to get the basics first and then find the elaborate stuff needed later on.

    I hope you'll be up for election? 8-)



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  • From Rob Swindell to Björn Felten on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 14:35:48
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Björn Felten to Rob Swindell on Tue Nov 06 2018 10:33 pm

    FTS-1 could be split up into probably 3 or 4 documents, at least, and some of
    those resulting documents would not really be relevant to the network as
    it
    operates today.

    Yes indeed. We really have to let go of all the old shit and think ahead, with new programmers in mind. Having a gazillion documents doesn't really encourage new programmers, it should be easy to get the basics first and then find the elaborate stuff needed later on.

    Yup. I get occasional requests from prospective FTN developers about the inner workings of mailers and tossers and such and that's part of my reasoning for creating the wiki.synchro.net reference articles I have. That, and assisting my future self on recalling how this stuff works when I need to know.

    I hope you'll be up for election? 8-)

    FTSC chair? Nah. I was a member of the FTSC a while back and I really don't recall anything constructive happening during that period. Some new docs have come out of the FTSC since then which are helpful (so, that's good, and maybe a credit to Mr. Vlist), but I don't find much enjoyment in the fight to get documents corrected or published through the FTSC.

    I would like to see more innovation in FTNs, but the battle against old standards/software/people just takes the fun out of it for me. That's why I prefer to innovate more in the realm of QWK, where I can innovate whenever I like and no one complains.
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 12:09:26

    On 2018 Nov 06 21:05:10, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    You probably need to program for FTN in order to fully understand the definitions in FTS-1.

    ummm... Rob does program for FTN... he is the (new) maintainer of sbbsecho which has recently undergone a rewrite to fix numerous items and make some things easier to handle... sbbsecho used to be a 3rd party addon but that maintainer left some time ago... the newer stuff is much better than it used to
    be... there is still room for more to be done but that may come later down the road...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Heck, even Jello can be violent in the wrong hands.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 12:13:14

    On 2018 Nov 06 21:41:50, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    If I missed anything from the original FTS-1, that was really just the README file for the ConfMail tosser/scanner,

    you're mixing up FTS-1 with the MSGID/REPLY document, FTS-9 ;)

    I'd say it's a good catch by you and I stand corrected. ConfMail
    stored the messages in MSG-format, one message per *.MSG file.

    a lot of systems followed the original MSG format which apparently originated on FIDO BBS... randy worked with the author's of that package to create FTS-1 based on that software and how the network worked at that time... maybe the stored message format didn't need to be defined but withut it there would likely be a lot less fidonet systems than there have been... that stored message definition gave enough information for folks to embrace how to get started and where to go from there...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Zucchini sci-fi movie: "Garden Wars" with Zuke Skywalker.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Rob Swindell on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 12:18:04

    On 2018 Nov 06 13:01:42, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    Right. And what I originally said was that the definition of "Stored Messages" really doesn't belong in any new FTS-1 replacement
    document(s) - if that were to happen.

    agreed...

    The "Stored Message" (so-called .msg file) format is good to be
    defined in a public document for software inter-operability on the
    systems that use it (still), but it's certainly not a requirement for
    FTN communication.

    agreed^2...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... We could really bust some heads - in a spiritual sense, of course.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 11:28:34
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: mark lewis to Björn Felten on Wed Nov 07 2018 12:09 pm


    On 2018 Nov 06 21:05:10, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    You probably need to program for FTN in order to fully understand the definitions in FTS-1.

    ummm... Rob does program for FTN... he is the (new) maintainer of sbbsecho which has recently undergone a rewrite to fix numerous items and make some things easier to handle... sbbsecho used to be a 3rd party addon but that maintainer left some time ago...

    Just some clarification on the history of SBBSecho: I alone wrote the first tosser (SBBSFIDO) and the FTN-netmail (.msg file) support for Synchronet back in like 1991 or '92. Later, I hired Allen Christiansen (who was already writing 3rd party addons for Synchronet under the company name Domain Entertainment) as a full-time employee of Digital Dynamics. Allen then created SBBSecho based somewhat on my SBBSFIDO code. SBBSFIDO was then deprecated and SBBSecho became a commerical product of Digital Dynamics (addon for Synchronet) from 1993-1996ish. Digital Dynamics ceased day-to-day operations in 1995 and I continued to support Synchronet and SBBSecho (and the other addons from DD) after that. SBBSecho (along with Synchronet v2) was released to the public domain in 1997.

    Synchronet v3 and SBBSecho v2 started as an open source project in 1999, with SBBSecho being comprised mostly of Allen's code. I supported and patched the SBBSecho code over the years and completed a vast re-write (SBBSecho v3) in April of 2016 and that's what is supported today. Some of Allen's code still remains in that program. :-)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 17:36:00
    Bj÷rn Felten wrote to Rob Swindell <=-

    You probably need to program for FTN in order to fully understand
    the definitions in FTS-1.

    Oh, this is going to be good.

    <reaches for his popcorn>


    kurt weiske | realitycheckbbs.org
    | kweiske@realitycheckbbs.org
    | 1:218/700@fidonet



    ... Have you ever asked a question you weren't supposed to ask?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.49
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Rob Swindell to Kurt Weiske on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 23:48:54
    Re: Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Kurt Weiske to Bj÷rn Felten on Wed Nov 07 2018 05:36 pm

    Bj÷rn Felten wrote to Rob Swindell <=-

    You probably need to program for FTN in order to fully understand the definitions in FTS-1.

    Oh, this is going to be good.

    Already resolved. :-/

    <reaches for his popcorn>

    Sorry to disappoint. :-)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Rob Swindell on Thursday, November 08, 2018 13:56:33
    I hope you'll be up for election? 8-)

    FTSC chair?

    Nah, the chair is appointed by the committee, so first you have to be elected to the committee.

    I would like to see more innovation in FTNs, but the battle against old standards/software/people just takes the fun out of it for me.

    Well, you've now seen my attempts. I'm sure that with you onboard the FTSC could really start making a difference, cleaning out all the dusty old stuff and paving way for some novelties.




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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Rob Swindell on Thursday, November 08, 2018 08:55:36

    On 2018 Nov 07 11:28:34, you wrote to me:

    Just some clarification on the history of SBBSecho:

    thank you, rob, for that history... it is very informative and helpful :)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Polite bandits say, "Excuse me" before cutting off your head.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Björn Felten on Friday, November 09, 2018 02:34:06
    Hello Björn!

    08 Nov 18 13:56, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    I hope you'll be up for election? 8-)

    FTSC chair?

    Nah, the chair is appointed by the committee, so first you have to
    be elected to the committee.

    The FTSC Administrator is *NOT* required to come from the ranks of the FTSC. The charter specifically allows a non-member to assume the administrator position, provided he is selected by the standing members of the FTSC.

    I would like to see more innovation in FTNs, but the battle
    against old standards/software/people just takes the fun out of
    it for me.

    Well, you've now seen my attempts. I'm sure that with you onboard
    the FTSC could really start making a difference, cleaning out all the dusty old stuff and paving way for some novelties.

    FTS-1 really could be split into several documents. The stored message definition section is useful information, but not absolutely required for a FTS-1 compatible implementation. The packet header and packed message definitions are the key components to how things work in FidoNet. The FTS-1 session protocol is largely obsolete, although in theory any dialup node is required to support inbound FTS-1 sessions during their Zone's Mail Hour.

    I can't remember the last time I saw a dialup FTS-1 session, incoming or outgoing. FTS-6 and EMSI sessions have largely taken over the dialup arena. There are even nodes supporting these protocols over Telnet or VModem connections (ITN and/or IVM flags.)

    FTS-1 was originally designed back when 300 bps modems were state of the art.

    Andrew


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Andrew Leary on Friday, November 09, 2018 09:27:04

    Andrew,

    I can't remember the last time I saw a dialup FTS-1 session, incoming or outgoing.

    I got rid of my dial-up modem in 2006.

    Lately I've been considering getting one again, the problem being I can't find one anymore, not even in shops with recycled stuff.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: A man's most proud moment is when he takes a shit (2:292/854)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Ward Dossche on Friday, November 09, 2018 04:04:42
    Hello Ward!

    09 Nov 18 09:27, you wrote to me:

    I got rid of my dial-up modem in 2006.

    Lately I've been considering getting one again, the problem being I
    can't find one anymore, not even in shops with recycled stuff.

    I still have 5 or 6 Courier V.Everything modems, one of which is providing the dialup line for my old OS/2 BBS. One of these days I'm planning to setup a dialup line for this Linux box, just because I would like to see it working. I certainly don't expect there to be much demand for it.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to All on Saturday, November 10, 2018 00:21:32
    09 Nov 18 02:34, Andrew Leary wrote to Bj÷rn Felten:

    Well, you've now seen my attempts. I'm sure that with you
    onboard the FTSC could really start making a difference, cleaning
    out all the dusty old stuff and paving way for some novelties.

    FTS-1 really could be split into several documents. The stored message definition section is useful information, but not absolutely required
    for a FTS-1 compatible implementation. The packet header and packed message definitions are the key components to how things work in
    FidoNet. The FTS-1 session protocol is largely obsolete, although in theory any dialup node is required to support inbound FTS-1 sessions during their Zone's Mail Hour.

    Some of this has been spoken about years ago then forgotten about.

    Andrew Leary is spot on.

    Policy4 refers only to FTS-1 with regards to ZMH. Obviously this only applies to the small number of dialup nodes we have in 2018, relative to Internet nodes.

    For dialup nodes, honouring ZMH was (and still is) the absolutely bare minimum necessary to be nodelisted. Their phone number could be freely used for BBS/voice/fax/other services outside ZMH. There were a few dialup nodes in the mid '90s that operated that way.

    Expanding on Andrew's suggestion, I propose that:

    1. FTS-0001.017 should be issued, superceding FTS-0001.016.

    2. The newly issued FTS-0001.017 is used solely as a reference document that only points to other documents, for ease of maintenance.

    3. FTS-0001.016 should be renamed FSC-0001.016 to be used as an historical reference, and is otherwise left completely untouched. This completely bypasses
    potential issues with the document's copyright.

    4. We prioritise documenting the required (non-optional) parts of a compatible node, especially Internet nodes, as they are the obvious majority of FidoNet in
    2018.

    5. Ensure these parts are documented separately, again for ease of maintenance,
    and refer to them in the new FTS-1.

    6. (optional, but probably sensible) Have FTS-0001.017 refer to (and apply to) FSC-0001.016 in the case of remaining dialup nodes. Effectively this would mean
    the new FTS-1 would apply only to Internet nodes. This could obviously change in future as the need arises, with further issues of FTS-1.

    7. Re-document the optional parts (eg. stored message format) as time and interest permits. In the interim simply refer to the appropriate section in FSC-0001.016.

    Regards
    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to All on Saturday, November 10, 2018 01:03:54
    10 Nov 18 00:21, I wrote to all:

    4. We prioritise documenting the required (non-optional) parts of a compatible node, especially Internet nodes, as they are the obvious majority of FidoNet in 2018.

    As an aside, I'm curious when exactly Internet nodes took over as the majority of FidoNet.

    If I had to guess it would be some time around 2005, but it's a complete guess.

    From old nodelists it should be possible to pinpoint when it happened.

    I suppose to be thorough, you'd want separate results of the number of dialup nodes versus both Internet-only and hybrid Internet/dialup nodes.

    Someone might have done all of this already?

    I only have nodelists going back to 2011. I'll try to hunt down some older ones. Suggestions welcome.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to andrew clarke on Friday, November 09, 2018 15:29:50
    From old nodelists it should be possible to pinpoint when it happened.

    Unfortunately, the nodelist has never been presenting reality very well.


    ..

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  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to All on Saturday, November 10, 2018 01:22:20
    10 Nov 18 01:03, I wrote to all:

    I only have nodelists going back to 2011. I'll try to hunt down some
    older ones. Suggestions welcome.

    Incidentally it occurs to me that conceivably a version control web site like GitHub or similar could be used to host every FidoNet nodelist ever issued, where diffs could easily be displayed between nodelists.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Ward Dossche on Saturday, November 10, 2018 01:28:04
    09 Nov 18 09:27, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

    I can't remember the last time I saw a dialup FTS-1 session,
    incoming or outgoing.

    I got rid of my dial-up modem in 2006.

    Lately I've been considering getting one again, the problem being I
    can't find one anymore, not even in shops with recycled stuff.

    In Australia it's increasingly difficult to connect a dialup modem to a landline and have it work reliably. POTS landlines are slowly being obsoleted by VoIP services connected to fibre (FttP/FttN/FttC), adding an analogue-digital-analogue conversion, hampering the modem's protocol negotiation etc. This can also cause fax machines to fail.

    And of course many households and businesses have ditched their landlines altogether in favour of mobile devices. Consequently the remaining POTS landlines become more expensive and less profitable for Telstra to maintain.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Bj÷rn Felten on Saturday, November 10, 2018 01:39:58
    09 Nov 18 15:29, you wrote to me:

    From old nodelists it should be possible to pinpoint when it
    happened.

    Unfortunately, the nodelist has never been presenting reality very well.

    That's true, "pinpoint" is fantasy. It would be an estimate only. I remain curious. :)

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Friday, November 09, 2018 11:09:32

    On 2018 Nov 08 13:56:32, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    I hope you'll be up for election? 8-)

    FTSC chair?

    Nah, the chair is appointed by the committee, so first you have to be elected to the committee.

    this is incorrect... the FTSC chair does not have to come from the ranks of current or former FTSC members... read the charter again, please...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... The times change and we change with them.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Andrew Leary on Friday, November 09, 2018 11:16:52

    On 2018 Nov 09 02:34:06, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    FTS-1 really could be split into several documents. The stored
    message definition section is useful information, but not absolutely required for a FTS-1 compatible implementation.

    this is why other proposals like the Hudson Message Base format and others were
    discussed to be placed as reference documents in the library and specifically not set as FTSC standards... putting them in the library was to aid others as to the workings of them but not to exhibit them as a FTSC standard... i remember discussion about it but do not recall if the documents were actually written and archived...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... My other computer is a Pentium 6.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Friday, November 09, 2018 18:20:50
    this is incorrect... the FTSC chair does not have to come from the ranks of current or former FTSC members...

    My bad. I'd happily forgotten how extremely bureaucratic the FidoNet powers once were.

    Warum es einfach machen, wenn mann's so schön komplizieren kann?



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to andrew clarke on Friday, November 09, 2018 18:08:56
    Hello andrew!

    10 Nov 18 01:22, andrew clarke wrote to All:


    Incidentally it occurs to me that conceivably a version control web
    site like GitHub or similar could be used to host every FidoNet
    nodelist ever issued, where diffs could easily be displayed between nodelists.

    You could easily replace the whole distribution and update mechanism that way and have lists available near real-time almost everywhere. I proposed that a couple of times over the last months (if not years)... response was zilch so far.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 6:08PM up 100 days, 1:13, 8 users, load averages: 0.27, 0.31, 0.26

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: Ideas of lust and dying (2:240/12)
  • From Markus Reschke@2:240/1661 to mark lewis on Friday, November 09, 2018 18:30:46
    Hi Mark!

    Nov 09 11:16 2018, mark lewis wrote to Andrew Leary:

    FTS-1 really could be split into several documents. The stored
    message definition section is useful information, but not absolutely
    required for a FTS-1 compatible implementation.

    this is why other proposals like the Hudson Message Base format and others were discussed to be placed as reference documents in the
    library and specifically not set as FTSC standards... putting them in
    the library was to aid others as to the workings of them but not to exhibit them as a FTSC standard... i remember discussion about it but
    do not recall if the documents were actually written and archived...

    AFAIK, there aren't any of the messagebase formats in the FTSC library, besides
    classic *.MSG.

    ciao,
    Markus

    ---
    * Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Andrew Leary on Friday, November 09, 2018 11:55:00
    Good ${greeting_time}, Andrew!

    09 Nov 2018 02:34:06, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    FTS-1 really could be split into several documents. The stored message definition section is useful information, but not absolutely required
    for a FTS-1 compatible implementation. The packet header and packed message definitions are the key components to how things work in
    FidoNet.

    The key component is the plain (really, 2-levels) structure of mutually interconnectable nodes (and their users) which can exchange files.

    The FTS-1 session protocol is largely obsolete, although in theory
    any dialup node is required to support inbound FTS-1 sessions during
    their Zone's Mail Hour.

    No: FTS-0001 may state (in the next edition) that dialup nodes are required to support EMSI, and IP nodes are required to support binkp.

    I can't remember the last time I saw a dialup FTS-1 session, incoming
    or outgoing. FTS-6 and EMSI sessions have largely taken over the
    dialup arena. There are even nodes supporting these protocols over
    Telnet or VModem connections (ITN and/or IVM flags.) FTS-1 was
    originally designed back when 300 bps modems were state of the art.

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... :wq!
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Alexey Vissarionov on Saturday, November 10, 2018 00:30:36
    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.

    So how do we get about it?

    FTS-00?? -- data structures
    FTS-01?? -- comm protocols

    RFC.


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Rob Swindell to Björn Felten on Friday, November 09, 2018 17:11:27
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Björn Felten to Alexey Vissarionov on Sat Nov 10 2018 12:30 am

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.

    So how do we get about it?

    FTS-00?? -- data structures
    FTS-01?? -- comm protocols

    comm protocols include data structures, so I'm not sure about your delineation there.

    Since there was no real numbering pattern before, I think it would awkward to try to introduce one now after all these years.
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Rob Swindell on Saturday, November 10, 2018 02:25:35
    Since there was no real numbering pattern before, I think it would
    awkward to try to introduce one now after all these years.

    Well, better late than never? I must admit that I still, after two decades (on and off) in the FTSC, don't quite understand the numbering system.

    Maybe we need an FTS-0000 where we define how it's supposed to work?



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Rob Swindell on Saturday, November 10, 2018 05:32:36
    comm protocols include data structures, so I'm not sure about your delineation there

    One is dynamic and the other one is static, so I think it should be easy to keep the two apart. YMMV of course...




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Andrew Clarke on Friday, November 09, 2018 23:42:02
    On 11-10-18 01:03, Andrew Clarke <=-
    spoke to All about FTS-1 and FTS-4 <=-

    As an aside, I'm curious when exactly Internet nodes took
    over as the majority of FidoNet.

    I only have nodelists going back to 2011. I'll try to hunt
    down some older ones. Suggestions welcome.

    Don't know it if will do you much good, but a good site for nodelist
    archives is:

    http://ambrosia60.dd-dns.de/fidonet/nodelist.php

    Another is (but only up to 2004): http://www.textfiles.com/fidonet-on-the-internet/nodediff.htm

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)



    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 23:47:47, 09 Nov 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dale Shipp on Saturday, November 10, 2018 10:58:59
    Don't know it if will do you much good, but a good site for nodelist archives is:

    If you're only interested in the flags, there is of course the 'Special Interest' section in the Fidonews.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to andrew clarke on Saturday, November 10, 2018 11:43:34
    As an aside, I'm curious when exactly Internet nodes took over as the majority of FidoNet.

    If you mean ION (internet only nodes), i.e. with speed 300 in the nodelist, they passed 50% on 2016-12-12 according to the stats in Fidonews.

    Nodes with both POTS and internet are more difficult to count, so I leave that to someone else. 8-)


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Saturday, November 10, 2018 11:52:26
    Nodes with both POTS and internet are more difficult to count, so I leave that to someone else. 8-)

    Binkp nodes (with IBN in the nodelist) passed 50% on 2016-06-27.


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Dale Shipp on Saturday, November 10, 2018 03:47:45
    Hello Dale!

    09 Nov 18 23:42, you wrote to Andrew Clarke:

    Don't know it if will do you much good, but a good site for nodelist archives is:

    http://ambrosia60.dd-dns.de/fidonet/nodelist.php

    Another is (but only up to 2004): http://www.textfiles.com/fidonet-on-the-internet/nodediff.htm

    nodehist.fidonet.org.ua currently has 4,226 nodelists dating from 1986-10-03 to today (2018-11-10) in its library.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Saturday, November 10, 2018 11:03:04
    On 2018 Nov 10 02:25:34, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    Maybe we need an FTS-0000 where we define how it's supposed to work?

    the FTAs are where that would be documented...

    FTA FTSC Administrative Documents
    FTS Fidonet Technical Standards
    FSP Fidonet Standards Proposals
    FSC Fidonet Reference Library (would be proposals)
    FRL Fidonet Reference Library (old versions of updated standards or old proposals)

    as originally proposed the FRL would contain all old documents the FTSC has archived... they may have been:
    - earlier versions of updated standards
    - earlier versions of updated proposals
    - old proposals not raised to a standard

    basically, all older documents would end up in the FRLs at some point...

    the flow of the process is basically:

    ->FTS-
    / \
    FSP- ->FRL (when updated or simply archived)
    \ /
    ->FSC-

    old FTA documents could (should?) also be placed in the FRLs to try to maintain
    a document history... that's what we tried to do with the FRL anyway... we lost so many old documents back in the day because no one thought to maintain the old ones for history... they have been very handy in numerous cases when they have been needed...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Best way to be useful - stay out of the way.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Andrew Leary on Saturday, November 10, 2018 23:59:27
    nodehist.fidonet.org.ua currently has 4,226 nodelists dating from 1986-10-03
    to today (2018-11-10) in its library.

    Interesting ... from 1986-10-03 till today only 1578 nodelists hqve been generated.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: A man's most proud moment is when he takes a shit (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, November 11, 2018 00:01:18
    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.

    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened to sue me if
    I endorse updating FTS-1.

    Let's do it ... :-)

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: A man's most proud moment is when he takes a shit (2:292/854)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to andrew clarke on Sunday, November 11, 2018 02:02:02
    Good ${greeting_time}, andrew!

    10 Nov 2018 00:21:32, you wrote to All:

    Policy4 refers only to FTS-1 with regards to ZMH.

    Yes. That's why new revision should be named "Technical requirements for a Fidonet node" or somewhat like that.

    Expanding on Andrew's suggestion, I propose that:
    1. FTS-0001.017 should be issued, superceding FTS-0001.016.

    Yes - it would be just a next edition. Fully rewritten, but next.

    2. The newly issued FTS-0001.017 is used solely as a reference
    document that only points to other documents, for ease of
    maintenance.

    Not only references, but the requirements like "dialup nodes must support EMSI protocol as defined in FSC-0056", "IP nodes must support binkp protocol as defined in FTS-1026", "email-based nodes must reply to the PING requests as defined in section 5.10 of FTS-5001 in at most 3 days (72 hours)", "the message
    editor should support multi-level quoting as defined in FSC-0032" etc.

    3. FTS-0001.016 should be renamed FSC-0001.016

    FRL-0001.016 (it once was FSC-0001.016 in the past, according to itself).

    to be used as an historical reference, and is otherwise left
    completely untouched. This completely bypasses potential issues with
    the document's copyright.

    Yes - just add a standard header before the original text ("This document is a part of Fidonet Reference Library (FRL) and preserves the text of FTS-0001.016 obsoleted by newer publications").

    4. We prioritise documenting the required (non-optional) parts of a compatible node, especially Internet nodes, as they are the obvious majority of FidoNet in 2018.

    That's quite simple: just require accepting uncompressed (this word is much better than "unpacked") PKT2+ bundles over binkp.

    5. Ensure these parts are documented separately, again for ease of maintenance, and refer to them in the new FTS-1.

    Yes: this would require issuing several FSPs and FTSes.

    6. (optional, but probably sensible) Have FTS-0001.017 refer to (and
    apply to) FSC-0001.016 in the case of remaining dialup nodes.

    Only if we'd find enough FTS-0001.016 dialup nodes not supporting EMSI. And I seriously doubt there is even a single such node left alive.

    Also, as there always will be some idiots who would try to obstruct this by setting up such nodes, these nodes _must_ be searched among listed at 01 Nov 2018 (well enough to avoid playing with timezones or whatever else).

    Effectively this would mean the new FTS-1 would apply only to
    Internet nodes.

    No: it _must_ apply to any and all nodes regardless of connection type.

    This could obviously change in future as the need arises, with
    further issues of FTS-1.

    Of course.

    7. Re-document the optional parts (eg. stored message format) as time
    and interest permits. In the interim simply refer to the appropriate section in FSC-0001.016.

    No: the FTS-0001.016 _must_ (in the sence of FTA-1006) be buried in oblivion.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to andrew clarke on Sunday, November 11, 2018 02:44:44
    Good ${greeting_time}, andrew!

    10 Nov 2018 01:03:54, you wrote to All:

    As an aside, I'm curious when exactly Internet nodes took over as the majority of FidoNet.
    From old nodelists it should be possible to pinpoint when it happened.
    I suppose to be thorough, you'd want separate results of the number of dialup nodes versus both Internet-only and hybrid Internet/dialup
    nodes.

    /bin/grep will help you with that.

    Someone might have done all of this already?

    Unlikely.

    I only have nodelists going back to 2011. I'll try to hunt down some
    older ones. Suggestions welcome.

    I have a really good archive of nodelists starting from 1990ies.
    Possibly, I'd create a git repository from it...


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... :wq!
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to andrew clarke on Sunday, November 11, 2018 03:00:00
    Good ${greeting_time}, andrew!

    10 Nov 2018 01:22:20, you wrote to All:

    I only have nodelists going back to 2011. I'll try to hunt down some
    older ones. Suggestions welcome.
    Incidentally it occurs to me that conceivably a version control web
    site like GitHub or similar could be used to host every FidoNet
    nodelist ever issued, where diffs could easily be displayed between nodelists.

    You don't need any proprietary service for that.

    man git


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Gerrit Kuehn on Sunday, November 11, 2018 03:03:00
    Good ${greeting_time}, Gerrit!

    09 Nov 2018 18:08:56, you wrote to andrew clarke:

    Incidentally it occurs to me that conceivably a version control web
    site like GitHub or similar could be used to host every FidoNet
    nodelist ever issued, where diffs could easily be displayed between
    nodelists.
    You could easily replace the whole distribution and update mechanism
    that way and have lists available near real-time almost everywhere.
    I proposed that a couple of times over the last months (if not
    years)... response was zilch so far.

    Possibly `man git-format-patch` is what really may be used for this purpose.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, November 11, 2018 03:14:16
    Good ${greeting_time}, Ward!

    11 Nov 2018 00:01:18, you wrote to me:

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened
    to sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.

    Do you care of those faggots?

    Let's do it ... :-)

    ... and do that so that they would die in agony of envy :-)


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, November 11, 2018 01:59:05
    Alexey,

    Let's do it ... :-)

    ... and do that so that they would die in agony of envy :-)

    No, I rather enjoy silly threats. You probably know I've been sued already on Fidonet-matters and won.

    In the meantime the law on civil suits has been changed to avoid reckless suits
    so that the plaintiff pays all the costs and legal fees of the accused when losing.

    Remember that when the late Helmut Hullen sued me, I had to pay my own attorney
    but German sysops set-up a Kraut-funding ... 8-) ... {with others chipping in} to defray the costs. That is not necessary anymore. That's one thing.

    The second thing is that this country has beautiful language laws (we have 3 national languages) and in order to sue me, the plaintiff now will need to have
    every relevant document translated into dutch by a court-appointed professional
    translator ... meaning translating P4, FTS-1 and whatever else at horrendously high costs. The case would need to be tried in Belgium, not in California, based on dutch-language documents, not english-language. That would be their first expensive mistake. Should the court accept english documents anyway, the Supreme Court will throw it out as a language violation ... it takes about 8 years. Unlike the US, the Supreme Court here has to hear every case presented to it (hence the long period). That would be their second mistake.

    But, I think you have pointed-out there are sufficient ways to deal with the matter and upset no-one.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: A man's most proud moment is when he takes a shit (2:292/854)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Andrew Leary on Sunday, November 11, 2018 00:22:02
    On 11-10-18 03:47, Andrew Leary <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Nodelists <=-

    09 Nov 18 23:42, you wrote to Andrew Clarke:

    Don't know it if will do you much good, but a good site for nodelist archives is:

    http://ambrosia60.dd-dns.de/fidonet/nodelist.php

    Another is (but only up to 2004): http://www.textfiles.com/fidonet-on-the-internet/nodediff.htm

    nodehist.fidonet.org.ua currently has 4,226 nodelists dating from 1986-10-03 to today (2018-11-10) in its library.

    I hope that Andrew, who wanted the information, sees your post to me.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)



    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 00:23:34, 11 Nov 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, November 11, 2018 02:29:26
    On 11 Nov 18 02:02:02, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to Andrew Clarke:

    6. (optional, but probably sensible) Have FTS-0001.017 refer to (and apply to) FSC-0001.016 in the case of remaining dialup nodes.

    Only if we'd find enough FTS-0001.016 dialup nodes not supporting EMSI. And seriously doubt there is even a single such node left alive.

    If I decide to shut off EMSI here and force connections to use FTS-0001 or Wazoo, will the nodelist-police revolk my listing and give me a huge fine?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, November 11, 2018 13:31:44
    Good ${greeting_time}, Ward!

    11 Nov 2018 01:59:04, you wrote to me:

    Remember that when the late Helmut Hullen sued me, I had to pay my
    own attorney but German sysops set-up a Kraut-funding ... 8-) ...
    {with others chipping in} to defray the costs. That is not necessary anymore. That's one thing.
    The second thing is that this country has beautiful language laws (we
    have 3 national languages) and in order to sue me, the plaintiff now
    will need to have every relevant document translated into dutch by a court-appointed professional translator ... meaning translating P4,

    There's the Russian translation of FPD, but... it was made by me.

    FTS-1 and whatever else at horrendously high costs. The case would
    need to be tried in Belgium, not in California, based on
    dutch-language documents, not english-language. That would be their
    first expensive mistake. Should the court accept english documents
    anyway, the Supreme Court will throw it out as a language violation
    ... it takes about 8 years. Unlike the US, the Supreme Court here
    has to hear every case presented to it (hence the long period). That
    would be their second mistake.

    Once anyone would try to sue me, they will face the same problems and, very likely, some additional :-)

    But, I think you have pointed-out there are sufficient ways to deal
    with the matter and upset no-one.

    I really don't care.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Nick Andre on Sunday, November 11, 2018 13:38:00
    Good ${greeting_time}, Nick!

    11 Nov 2018 02:29:26, you wrote to me:

    Only if we'd find enough FTS-0001.016 dialup nodes not supporting
    EMSI. And seriously doubt there is even a single such node left
    alive.
    If I decide to shut off EMSI here and force connections to use
    FTS-0001 or Wazoo, will the nodelist-police revolk my listing and
    give me a huge fine?

    No. But doing that, you most likely would bring the close attention of psychiatrists to your person.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, November 11, 2018 10:02:34
    Hello Alexey!

    11 Nov 18 03:03, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    You could easily replace the whole distribution and update mechanism
    that way and have lists available near real-time almost everywhere.
    I proposed that a couple of times over the last months (if not
    years)... response was zilch so far.

    Possibly `man git-format-patch` is what really may be used for this purpose.

    If you want to send/post updates (diffs), yes. However, having the nodelist on a git repo would make updating as easy as using a simple "git pull" for most people.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 10:02AM up 101 days, 17:07, 8 users, load averages: 0.05, 0.14, 0.15

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: We are a nation (2:240/12)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, November 11, 2018 10:11:42
    Hello Alexey!

    11 Nov 18 03:14, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Ward Dossche:


    Do you care of those faggots?

    Sometimes I wonder why people tend to take so much interest in private matters of other people they don't know at all.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 10:11AM up 101 days, 17:16, 8 users, load averages: 0.38, 0.26, 0.19

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: We are a nation (2:240/12)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, November 11, 2018 05:08:48
    Hello Alexey!

    11 Nov 18 02:02, you wrote to andrew clarke:

    Not only references, but the requirements like "dialup nodes must
    support EMSI protocol as defined in FSC-0056", "IP nodes must support binkp protocol as defined in FTS-1026", "email-based nodes must reply
    to the PING requests as defined in section 5.10 of FTS-5001 in at most
    3 days (72 hours)", "the message editor should support multi-level
    quoting as defined in FSC-0032" etc.

    The FTSC does not have the power to enact or enforce such restrictions. The *Cs would have to act to do so, probably by proposing an updated FidoNet Policy document and getting it ratified.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Andrew Leary on Sunday, November 11, 2018 14:48:48
    Good ${greeting_time}, Andrew!

    11 Nov 2018 05:08:48, you wrote to me:

    Not only references, but the requirements like "dialup nodes must
    support EMSI protocol as defined in FSC-0056", "IP nodes must
    support binkp protocol as defined in FTS-1026", "email-based nodes
    must reply to the PING requests as defined in section 5.10 of
    FTS-5001 in at most 3 days (72 hours)", "the message editor should
    support multi-level quoting as defined in FSC-0032" etc.
    The FTSC does not have the power to enact or enforce such
    restrictions. The *Cs would have to act to do so, probably by
    proposing an updated FidoNet Policy document and getting it
    ratified.

    Everything above is the current practice: most (likely, all) remaining dialup nodes use EMSI, 1099 IP nodes use binkp and only 7 nodes are ifcico-only, and even this message complies to FSC-0032 in quoting style.

    So FTSC can and must document this.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, November 11, 2018 04:20:31
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Alexey Vissarionov to andrew clarke on Sun Nov 11 2018 02:02 am

    "IP nodes must support binkp protocol as defined in FTS-1026"

    Why must IP nodes support binkp protocol?

    My node does, and uses binkp to transfer mail but must I? What if my link partner wants to use ftp, or something else?

    "the message editor should support multi-level quoting as defined in FSC-0032" etc.

    While the above is good practise, I don't think the FTSC needs to concern itself things like quoting style.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Cursor: An expert in four-letter words
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to Andrew Leary on Sunday, November 11, 2018 13:58:15
    The FTSC does not have the power to enact or enforce such restrictions. The *Cs would have to act to do so, probably by proposing an updated FidoNet Policy document and getting it ratified.

    Correct, nevertheless there are FTSC-officers who think they are the nodelist police and write *Cs to push their agenda.

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, November 11, 2018 12:42:42

    On 2018 Nov 10 23:59:26, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

    nodehist.fidonet.org.ua currently has 4,226 nodelists dating from
    1986-10-03 to today (2018-11-10) in its library.

    Interesting ... from 1986-10-03 till today only 1578 nodelists hqve been generated.

    one might be willing to bet that you are not counting those from each zone and possibly also not counting the ""rogue"" nodelist generated when Z2 underwent renumbering ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Screw mad cow. Screw the dumb ol' scare.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to mark lewis on Sunday, November 11, 2018 20:19:08
    nodehist.fidonet.org.ua currently has 4,226 nodelists dating from
    1986-10-03 to today (2018-11-10) in its library.

    Interesting ... from 1986-10-03 till today only 1578 nodelists hqve been
    generated.

    one might be willing to bet that you are not counting those from each zone and possibly also not counting the ""rogue"" nodelist generated when Z2 underwent renumbering ;)

    Ehrrrrr ... renumbering? ??

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From Rob Swindell to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, November 11, 2018 14:36:59
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Alexey Vissarionov to Ward Dossche on Sun Nov 11 2018 03:14 am

    Good ${greeting_time}, Ward!

    11 Nov 2018 00:01:18, you wrote to me:

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened
    to sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.

    Do you care of those faggots?

    Here in America, that's a pretty derogatory description to assign to someone. I don't care whether they are homosexual or not, but I don't think that disparagement is justified. :-(
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, November 11, 2018 19:19:58

    On 2018 Nov 11 20:19:08, you wrote to me:

    Interesting ... from 1986-10-03 till today only 1578 nodelists hqve
    been generated.

    one might be willing to bet that you are not counting those from each
    zone and possibly also not counting the ""rogue"" nodelist generated
    when Z2 underwent renumbering ;)

    Ehrrrrr ... renumbering? ??

    back in the '90s i think... there was a big net renumbering and folks got worked up about it... some created and distributed an alternate nodelist with the old numbering for quite a while... eventually it all settled down and the new numbering was accepted...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I have read and understand the above X____________________________
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Rob Swindell on Monday, November 12, 2018 14:27:14
    Good ${greeting_time}, Rob!

    11 Nov 2018 14:36:58, you wrote to me:

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened
    to sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.
    Do you care of those faggots?
    Here in America, that's a pretty derogatory description to assign to someone. I don't care whether they are homosexual or not, but I don't think that disparagement is justified. :-(

    People who threaten to sue others for "copyright infringement" (whatever that could mean) deserve even more derogatory words. Alas, my English is not that good, and I don't know these words.

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Monday, November 12, 2018 14:40:37
    when Z2 underwent renumbering ;)

    Ehrrrrr ... renumbering? ??

    back in the '90s i think... there was a big net renumbering and folks got worked up about it... some created and distributed an alternate nodelist with the old numbering for quite a while... eventually it all settled
    down and the new numbering was accepted...

    Oh dear ... that is really old stuff, I nearly thought you were implicating me.

    I'm guessing that must have been during the 2nd term of the late Ron Dwight like 25 years ago.

    There were issues in R24 Germany and R28 The Netherlands. Indeed there was an alternate regional segment for R24 for a while but that matter got settled after Oct.4th 1994 ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: A man's most proud moment is when he takes a shit (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alexey Vissarionov on Monday, November 12, 2018 14:40:54
    Alexey,

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.

    It's a nice country to visit ... really ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: A man's most proud moment is when he takes a shit (2:292/854)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Ward Dossche on Monday, November 12, 2018 16:50:20
    Good ${greeting_time}, Ward!

    12 Nov 2018 14:40:54, you wrote to me:

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.
    It's a nice country to visit ... really ...

    Visit != live in.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Monday, November 12, 2018 09:47:20
    On 2018 Nov 12 14:40:36, you wrote to me:

    when Z2 underwent renumbering ;)

    Ehrrrrr ... renumbering? ??

    back in the '90s i think... there was a big net renumbering and folks
    got worked up about it... some created and distributed an alternate
    nodelist with the old numbering for quite a while... eventually it all
    settled down and the new numbering was accepted...

    Oh dear ... that is really old stuff,

    yes it is... old enough to possible by in those 4000+ nodelists on the referenced site...

    I nearly thought you were implicating me.

    not in this case ;)

    I'm guessing that must have been during the 2nd term of the late Ron Dwight like 25 years ago.

    it was, yes...

    There were issues in R24 Germany and R28 The Netherlands. Indeed there
    was an alternate regional segment for R24 for a while but that matter
    got settled after Oct.4th 1994 ...

    that is the incident i was speaking of, yes...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I was going to procrastinate, but I put it off...
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to Alexey Vissarionov on Monday, November 12, 2018 16:06:22
    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.
    It's a nice country to visit ... really ...

    Visit != live in.

    8-)

    As I said nice country to visit.

    However, the social system sucks, a visit to the hospital can bankrupt you, taxation is the most ridiculous system in the world, racial injustice, anti feminism...and Russians fuck with elections.

    Ward
    ?
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From Jeff Smith@1:282/1031 to Ward Dossche on Monday, November 12, 2018 10:23:16
    Hello Ward,

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.

    It's a nice country to visit ... really ...

    I feel the same way about the idea of visiting other countries.



    Jeff


    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Fidoneet: The Ouija Board - Anoka, MN -bbs.ouijabrd.ne\ (1:282/1031)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Ward Dossche on Monday, November 12, 2018 09:30:00
    Ward Dossche wrote to Alexey Vissarionov <=-

    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened to
    sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.

    Going to post this threat online so we can see it?



    ... How does this work, is there an orientation?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Alexey Vissarionov on Monday, November 12, 2018 09:33:00
    Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

    Do you care of those faggots?

    Not sure what someone's sexual orientation has to do with Fidonet
    mailers and architecture, do you know something we don't?



    ... Have you ever seen anything like this place?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alexey Vissarionov on Monday, November 12, 2018 13:45:40
    On 11 Nov 18 03:14:16, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to Ward Dossche:

    Do you care of those faggots?

    What the fuck does that have to do with technical matters?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Ward Dossche on Monday, November 12, 2018 23:17:40
    Good ${greeting_time}, Ward!

    12 Nov 2018 09:30:00, Kurt Weiske wrote to you:

    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened to
    sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.
    Going to post this threat online so we can see it?

    And, hopefully, have a good laugh on it.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, November 12, 2018 23:19:00
    Good ${greeting_time}, Kurt!

    12 Nov 2018 09:33:00, you wrote to me:

    Do you care of those faggots?
    Not sure what someone's sexual orientation has to do with Fidonet
    mailers and architecture, do you know something we don't?

    That's not about sexual orientation - that's about the shit in their heads.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to Jeff Smith on Monday, November 12, 2018 19:32:17
    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.

    It's a nice country to visit ... really ...

    I feel the same way about the idea of visiting other countries.

    Anybody visiting my neck of the woods, please let it be known to meet up for some food, beer or coffee.

    Also bring expendable hard drive, the bigger the better.

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, November 12, 2018 19:33:38
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened to
    sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.

    Going to post this threat online so we can see it?

    You want me to ?

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854.1 to Kurt Weiske on Monday, November 12, 2018 19:36:56
    Do you care of those faggots?

    Not sure what someone's sexual orientation has to do with Fidonet
    mailers and architecture, do you know something we don't?

    I think it has to do with people's not always correct understanding of the english language.

    I'm sure Alexey didn't mean it that way.

    Ward
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)
  • From Jeff Smith@1:282/1031 to Ward Dossche on Monday, November 12, 2018 16:15:50
    Hello Ward,

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.

    Living in the US one is subject to the laws of the land, be those laws good or bad.

    It's a nice country to visit ... really ...

    I feel the same way about the idea of visiting other countries.

    Same can be said regarding some people/family. They are nice to visit but ya wouldn't want to live there. :)

    Anybody visiting my neck of the woods, please let it be known to meet up for some food, beer or coffee.

    Food and beer is fine. Maybe a sip or two of drinking stuff. Never cared for coffee though. Tea isn't bad though.

    Also bring expendable hard drive, the bigger the better.

    I has a couple 4 TB USB drives sitting on a shelf here. :)


    Jeff

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Fidoneet: The Ouija Board - Anoka, MN -bbs.ouijabrd.ne\ (1:282/1031)
  • From Jeff Smith@1:282/1031 to All on Monday, November 12, 2018 16:25:44
    Hello There,

    On 11 Nov 18 03:14:16, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to Ward Dossche:

    Do you care of those faggots?

    What the fuck does that have to do with technical matters?

    I would have to agree. To me and I would assume others. The term used is derogatory and refers to someone's sexual preference. How the term and it's use in any way relates to the FTSC I can not see or imagine.


    Jeff



    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Fidoneet: The Ouija Board - Anoka, MN -bbs.ouijabrd.ne\ (1:282/1031)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Markus Reschke on Monday, November 12, 2018 19:57:26
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Markus Reschke to mark lewis on Fri Nov 09 2018 06:30 pm

    AFAIK, there aren't any of the messagebase formats in the FTSC library, besides classic *.MSG.

    SBBS set removed too? All my old stuff was removed too. Seems like a 'replace' may have been done as can't find it elsewhere either. Not sure when it happened.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Rob Swindell to Alexey Vissarionov on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 07:22:47
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Alexey Vissarionov to Rob Swindell on Mon Nov 12 2018 02:27 pm

    Good ${greeting_time}, Rob!

    11 Nov 2018 14:36:58, you wrote to me:

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened
    to sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.
    Do you care of those faggots?
    Here in America, that's a pretty derogatory description to assign to someone. I don't care whether they are homosexual or not, but I don't think that disparagement is justified. :-(

    People who threaten to sue others for "copyright infringement" (whatever that could mean) deserve even more derogatory words. Alas, my English is not that good, and I don't know these words.

    Maybe "jerk" would be a better word choice.

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.

    Okay. Not sure what that has to do with the subject matter. You don't have jerks or homosexuals where you live?
  • From Markus Reschke@2:240/1661 to Carol Shenkenberger on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 18:06:00
    Hi Carol!

    Nov 12 19:57 2018, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Markus Reschke:

    AFAIK, there aren't any of the messagebase formats in the FTSC
    library, besides classic *.MSG.

    SBBS set removed too? All my old stuff was removed too. Seems like
    a 'replace' may have been done as can't find it elsewhere either. Not
    sure when it happened.

    Were those additional documents or official FTSC ones?

    ciao,
    Markus

    ---
    * Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Rob Swindell on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 22:02:22
    Good ${greeting_time}, Rob!

    13 Nov 2018 07:22:46, you wrote to me:

    sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.
    Do you care of those faggots?
    Here in America, that's a pretty derogatory description to
    assign to someone. I don't care whether they are homosexual or
    not, but I don't think that disparagement is justified. :-(
    People who threaten to sue others for "copyright infringement"
    (whatever that could mean) deserve even more derogatory words.
    Alas, my English is not that good, and I don't know these words.
    Maybe "jerk" would be a better word choice.

    Not really... it doesn't express that level of disgust.

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.
    Okay. Not sure what that has to do with the subject matter.
    You don't have jerks

    As everywhere else, we have lots of them :-)

    or homosexuals where you live?

    I think they are very rare or hiding very well... Generally, I don't care.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... :wq!
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Markus Reschke on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 21:51:08
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Markus Reschke to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:06 pm

    Nov 12 19:57 2018, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Markus Reschke:

    AFAIK, there aren't any of the messagebase formats in the FTSC
    library, besides classic *.MSG.

    SBBS set removed too? All my old stuff was removed too. Seems like
    a 'replace' may have been done as can't find it elsewhere either.
    Not sure when it happened.

    Were those additional documents or official FTSC ones?

    Released to the FTSC is my understamding but not aware of the final designation. Rob Swindel will know best.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Rob Swindell to Carol Shenkenberger on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 20:01:34
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Markus Reschke on Tue Nov 13 2018 09:51 pm

    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Markus Reschke to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:06 pm

    Nov 12 19:57 2018, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Markus Reschke:

    AFAIK, there aren't any of the messagebase formats in the FTSC
    library, besides classic *.MSG.

    SBBS set removed too? All my old stuff was removed too. Seems like
    a 'replace' may have been done as can't find it elsewhere either.
    Not sure when it happened.

    Were those additional documents or official FTSC ones?

    Released to the FTSC is my understamding but not aware of the final designation. Rob Swindel will know best.

    I honestly don't know what you're talking about. An "SBBS set" of FTSC documents? I don't recall there being such a thing.
  • From Konstantin Kuzov@2:5019/40 to Ward Dossche on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 13:19:54
    Konnichi wa, *Ward-kun*! Aogu manako oyobi uketamawaru waga koe!
    Tomodachi _Ward Dossche_ tsukuru airon _Andrew Leary_
    Nichiji - /*10 H«∩ 18 23:59*/, Daizai - /*Re: Nodelists*/:

    nodehist.fidonet.org.ua currently has 4,226 nodelists dating from
    1986-10-03
    to today (2018-11-10) in its library.

    Interesting ... from 1986-10-03 till today only 1578 nodelists hqve
    been generated.

    nodehist.fidonet.org.ua is using daily nodelists from 2009. That's why the count is so huge.
    There are also huge gaps till 1992.

    Full archive of used nodelists is available here: http://happy.kiev.ua/pub/nodelist/old/nodelist/

    4 1984
    1 1985
    1 1986
    1 1987
    2 1988
    2 1989
    31 1990
    34 1991
    52 1992
    53 1993
    52 1994
    52 1995
    52 1996
    52 1997
    52 1998
    53 1999
    52 2000
    51 2001
    52 2002
    52 2003
    53 2004
    51 2005
    52 2006
    52 2007
    52 2008
    130 2009
    359 2010
    351 2011
    348 2012
    362 2013
    364 2014
    363 2015
    357 2016
    364 2017
    311 2018
    -------------
    4270 Total


    Ganbatte, *Ward*!

    [_N0SF3R@TU_]
    ... GoldED-NSF/LNX 1.1.5-b20140107 (Linux 4.14.41-gentoo iF6M42)
    --- #[Kaori Sekken: Master.NoSFeRaTU[@]Gmail.com] [Kumi Nyaa]#
    * Origin: Ojisan, oriru mottekuru suna oyobi korosu sagaru kabe (2:5019/40)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Markus Reschke on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 08:30:28

    On 2018 Nov 13 18:06:00, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

    AFAIK, there aren't any of the messagebase formats in the FTSC
    library, besides classic *.MSG.

    SBBS set removed too? All my old stuff was removed too. Seems like
    a 'replace' may have been done as can't find it elsewhere either. Not
    sure when it happened.

    Were those additional documents or official FTSC ones?

    they were not "official FTSC documents"... they were added only to facilitate a
    central location of storage to make them easier to find...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Markus Reschke@2:240/1661 to mark lewis on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 21:17:08
    Hello Mark!

    Nov 14 08:30 2018, mark lewis wrote to Markus Reschke:

    SBBS set removed too? All my old stuff was removed too. Seems like
    a 'replace' may have been done as can't find it elsewhere either.
    Not sure when it happened.

    Were those additional documents or official FTSC ones?

    they were not "official FTSC documents"... they were added only to facilitate a central location of storage to make them easier to
    find...

    We could add a new document type for additional stuff like that, i.e. just maintaining an index and the central storage.

    ciao,
    Markus

    ---
    * Origin: *** theca tabellaria *** (2:240/1661)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Markus Reschke on Thursday, November 15, 2018 20:32:58
    Re: FTS-1 and FTS-4
    By: Markus Reschke to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Nov 13 2018 06:06 pm

    Hi Carol!

    Nov 12 19:57 2018, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Markus Reschke:

    AFAIK, there aren't any of the messagebase formats in the FTSC
    library, besides classic *.MSG.

    SBBS set removed too? All my old stuff was removed too. Seems like
    a 'replace' may have been done as can't find it elsewhere either.
    Not sure when it happened.

    Were those additional documents or official FTSC ones?

    Don't know. Information was from Rob Swindell that they were documented. Perhaps I assumed in FTSC someplace?

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)