• FTSC Administrator - votes

    From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to All on Thursday, December 06, 2018 15:19:56
    7 of 14 eligible voters have cast their ballots.
    The polls will close on Sunday, 09 December 2018 at 20:00 UTC


    Votes using the following passwords have been recorded.

    452fce0c-ec20-11e8-b2d5-74d4359f0079
    T25lIHZvdGUgZm9yIEFuZHJldyBMZWFyeQ
    778559955
    FTSC0815
    28Ahfre-6521
    FTSC2018
    MaryJaneslastdance

    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to All on Saturday, December 08, 2018 15:00:01
    Reminder: The polls close in 24 hours.



    7 of 14 eligible voters have cast their ballots.
    The polls will close on Sunday, 09 December 2018 at 20:00 UTC


    Votes using the following passwords have been recorded.

    452fce0c-ec20-11e8-b2d5-74d4359f0079
    T25lIHZvdGUgZm9yIEFuZHJldyBMZWFyeQ
    778559955
    FTSC0815
    28Ahfre-6521
    FTSC2018
    MaryJaneslastdance

    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Fred Riccio on Sunday, December 09, 2018 19:07:20
    Good ${greeting_time}, Fred!

    08 Dec 2018 15:00:00, you wrote to All:

    Votes using the following passwords have been recorded.
    452fce0c-ec20-11e8-b2d5-74d4359f0079
    T25lIHZvdGUgZm9yIEFuZHJldyBMZWFyeQ
    778559955
    FTSC0815
    28Ahfre-6521
    FTSC2018
    MaryJaneslastdance

    I don't see my vote cast on 2018-12-07 00:11:30 UTC:

    7 03:15:01 Msg from 2:5020/545 to 1:132/174 packed via 1:132/174

    (the time is MSK == UTC+3).

    Possibly, there's some issue with our direct link...


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sunday, December 09, 2018 11:28:40
    09 Dec 18 19:07, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Fred Riccio:

    I don't see my vote cast on 2018-12-07 00:11:30 UTC:

    7 03:15:01 Msg from 2:5020/545 to 1:132/174 packed via 1:132/174

    (the time is MSK == UTC+3).

    Possibly, there's some issue with our direct link...

    My logs show a handful of connects in July, then the one today. Nothing for December 7. Your resend came through loud and clear, your password will be included in my next summary.

    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to All on Sunday, December 09, 2018 15:00:01

    The polls are now closed. Preliminary results will be posted here tomorrow.


    8 of 14 eligible voters have cast their ballots.


    Votes using the following passwords have been recorded.

    452fce0c-ec20-11e8-b2d5-74d4359f0079
    T25lIHZvdGUgZm9yIEFuZHJldyBMZWFyeQ
    778559955
    FTSC0815
    28Ahfre-6521
    FTSC2018
    MaryJaneslastdance e8004edda3a2bf4de2c0eb7728cb4290b18521937d43a4c3006e7f22b91da942



    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to All on Sunday, December 09, 2018 19:03:13

    8 of 14 eligible voters cast their ballots.


    Andrew Leary (4 votes)
    T25lIHZvdGUgZm9yIEFuZHJldyBMZWFyeQ
    778559955
    28Ahfre-6521
    FTSC2018

    Alexey Vissarionov (3 votes)
    452fce0c-ec20-11e8-b2d5-74d4359f0079
    FTSC0815
    e8004edda3a2bf4de2c0eb7728cb4290b18521937d43a4c3006e7f22b91da942

    Carol Shenkenberger (1 vote)
    MaryJaneslastdance



    The period to contest these results begins now
    and ends Sunday, 16 December 2018 (20:00 UTC)



    Challenges
    ==========

    Any voter or candidate wishing to challenge the results may do so by sending NetMail to the independent enumerator (Fred Riccio @ 1:132/174). No challenges

    will be considered if received after the period specified above. The independent enumerator will have the final say in any challenges of candidates or votes. Upon expiration of the challenge period, the final results will be posted in FTSC_PUBLIC, and FTA-1003 will be updated to reflect the final results.



    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Fred Riccio on Monday, December 10, 2018 02:18:10
    Fred,

    8 of 14 eligible voters cast their ballots.

    Are we also going to learn about the names of the voters without linking them to their vote?

    That way we know who did not vote and next time they want to be a candidate when their term is up, they could be told not to bother.

    Further ...

    The period to contest these results begins now
    and ends Sunday, 16 December 2018 (20:00 UTC)

    These were the passwords of 7 votes on Dec.8th ...

    452fce0c-ec20-11e8-b2d5-74d4359f0079
    T25lIHZvdGUgZm9yIEFuZHJldyBMZWFyeQ
    778559955
    FTSC0815
    28Ahfre-6521
    FTSC2018
    MaryJaneslastdance

    After Alexey Vissarionov complained his vote was missing, that list was ammended as follows:

    452fce0c-ec20-11e8-b2d5-74d4359f0079
    T25lIHZvdGUgZm9yIEFuZHJldyBMZWFyeQ
    778559955
    FTSC0815
    28Ahfre-6521
    FTSC2018
    MaryJaneslastdance e8004edda3a2bf4de2c0eb7728cb4290b18521937d43a4c3006e7f22b91da942

    Meaning Alexey's vote carries the password ...

    e8004edda3a2bf4de2c0eb7728cb4290b18521937d43a4c3006e7f22b91da942

    And subsequently we know he voted for himself.

    It means the secrecy of the voting has now been compromised and the logical result would be that it is totally invalid.

    One could say that I cannot complain because I was not a candidate nor a voter,
    and that is completely in line with the rules governing this election. However,
    as the indiscretion is to be attributed to the vote enumerator himself, he ought to excuse himself from ruling on this and declare this election a dud.

    Take care,

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, December 09, 2018 21:25:19
    10 Dec 18 02:18, Ward Dossche wrote to Fred Riccio:

    8 of 14 eligible voters cast their ballots.

    Are we also going to learn about the names of the voters without
    linking them to their vote?

    I have no plans to do that, but if the eligible voters would like to declare if
    they voted or not, I will speak out if they say one thing and did the other.



    the secrecy of the voting has now been compromised and the
    logical result would be that it is totally invalid.

    There was no promise (or mandate) of secrecy, confidentiality, or anonymity in the election rules.

    Furthermore, although confidentiality was compromised, it happened *AFTER* the voting was closed and the votes had been tallied and does *NOT* affect the results.

    The election is valid.



    One could say that I cannot complain because I was not a candidate
    nor a voter, and that is completely in line with the rules governing
    this election. However, as the indiscretion is to be attributed to
    the vote enumerator himself, he ought to excuse himself from ruling
    on this and declare this election a dud.

    That is correct. Under the rules of this election you have no right to contest
    the results. I will not be excusing myself.

    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Fred Riccio on Monday, December 10, 2018 13:16:36
    Good ${greeting_time}, Fred!

    09 Dec 2018 11:28:40, you wrote to me:

    I don't see my vote cast on 2018-12-07 00:11:30 UTC:
    7 03:15:01 Msg from 2:5020/545 to 1:132/174 packed via 1:132/174
    (the time is MSK == UTC+3).
    Possibly, there's some issue with our direct link...
    My logs show a handful of connects in July, then the one today.
    Nothing for December 7. Your resend came through loud and clear,
    your password will be included in my next summary.

    What prevented you from answering in netmail? Now everyone knows that long 256-bit hash was used by me, so the confidentiality of the voting has to be considered as compromised.

    If that were a single vote for me (as it was for Carol), I wouldn't give a single fuck. However, there are other people supporting me as a candidate, and the difference between me and Andrew is just one vote, so I think we have to repeat with another enumerator.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to Alexey Vissarionov on Monday, December 10, 2018 08:10:12
    10 Dec 18 13:16, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Fred Riccio:

    What prevented you from answering in netmail? Now everyone knows that long 256-bit hash was used by me, so the confidentiality of the
    voting has to be considered as compromised.

    If you had ASKED in netmail, I would have ansered using the same method, but since you asked in a public forum I wanted to show the rest of the people here that your question was being dealt with and not being ignored.


    If that were a single vote for me (as it was for Carol), I wouldn't
    give a single fuck. However, there are other people supporting me as
    a candidate, and the difference between me and Andrew is just one
    vote, so I think we have to repeat with another enumerator.

    I'm not following your logic. Are you saying that because people know who YOU voted for, you could possibly get two other votes?

    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Fred Riccio on Monday, December 10, 2018 14:55:14
    Fred,

    the secrecy of the voting has now been compromised and the
    logical result would be that it is totally invalid.

    There was no promise (or mandate) of secrecy, confidentiality, or
    anonymity in the election rules.

    If the vote was not meant to be secret, there was no need for an elaborate password system and I personally think the electorate has a right to know who the voters are without disclosing the actual vote.

    That is correct. Under the rules of this election you have no right to contest the results. I will not be excusing myself.

    The absence of the right to contest the result does not disqualify me from having an opinion.

    There also seems to be a vote by Sean Dennis which went the way of the Dodo-bird and vanished. it is not mentioned in any of the reporting ... this is
    the 2nd questionable vote.

    I still think the proper thing is to step back and to announce a rerun with a new, yet to be decided-upon, enumerator.

    Take care,

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to Ward Dossche on Monday, December 10, 2018 09:04:25
    10 Dec 18 14:55, Ward Dossche wrote to Fred Riccio:


    the secrecy of the voting has now been compromised and the
    logical result would be that it is totally invalid.

    There was no promise (or mandate) of secrecy, confidentiality, or
    anonymity in the election rules.

    If the vote was not meant to be secret, there was no need for an elaborate password system

    I don't consider it elaborate.



    and I personally think the electorate has a
    right to know who the voters are without disclosing the actual vote.

    See my previous response to you. If the voters want to make it known, they will.



    That is correct. Under the rules of this election you have no right
    to contest the results. I will not be excusing myself.

    The absence of the right to contest the result does not disqualify me from having an opinion.

    Your opinion has been noted.


    There also seems to be a vote by Sean Dennis which went the way of
    the Dodo-bird and vanished. it is not mentioned in any of the
    reporting ... this is the 2nd questionable vote.

    There must be some back channel I am not aware of.... Sean knows what happened
    and he knows why. I notified him via NetMail. If he wants to discuss it here let him bring it up himself.

    Are you trying to bait me into another breach of confidentiality?


    I still think the proper thing is to step back and to announce a
    rerun with a new, yet to be decided-upon, enumerator.

    I hear your opinion, but nothing you have said tells me that the results would be any different.

    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Fred Riccio on Monday, December 10, 2018 16:27:43
    Fred,

    If the vote was not meant to be secret, there was no need for an
    elaborate password system

    I don't consider it elaborate.

    Semantics. Passwords were needed to protect the vote, hence a secret voting.

    There also seems to be a vote by Sean Dennis which went the way of FR>WD> the Dodo-bird and vanished. it is not mentioned in any of the
    reporting ... this is the 2nd questionable vote.

    There must be some back channel I am not aware of....

    There definitely is a backchannel where I picked it up ... a third reason to step back: Breach of confidence.

    Are you trying to bait me into another breach of confidentiality?

    Thank you for the confession, here's #4.

    I hear your opinion, but nothing you have said tells me that the results would be any different.

    There could even be a #5 ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Fred Riccio on Monday, December 10, 2018 17:40:33
    Re: FTSC Administrator - preliminary results
    By: Fred Riccio to All on Sun Dec 09 2018 07:03 pm

    Well done on the election Fred!

    I see no challange on my side.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Alexey Vissarionov on Monday, December 10, 2018 17:47:59
    Re: FTSC Administrator - missing vote
    By: Alexey Vissarionov to Fred Riccio on Mon Dec 10 2018 01:16 pm

    What prevented you from answering in netmail? Now everyone knows that long
    256-bit hash was used by me, so the confidentiality of the voting has to be considered as compromised.

    If that were a single vote for me (as it was for Carol), I wouldn't give a
    single fuck. However, there are other people supporting me as a candidate, and the difference between me and Andrew is just one vote, so I think we have to repeat with another enumerator.

    Actually, it looks like we have a runoff maybe due to that?

    A fast revote with just you two running?

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Carol Shenkenberger on Monday, December 10, 2018 18:00:55
    Hello Carol!

    10 Dec 18 17:40, you wrote to Fred Riccio:

    Well done on the election Fred!
    I see no challange on my side.

    Agreed. I, for one, appreciate the effort that Fred put into this.

    Thanks, Fred!

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Fred Riccio on Monday, December 10, 2018 18:23:45
    Re: Re: FTSC Administrator - preliminary results
    By: Fred Riccio to Ward Dossche on Sun Dec 09 2018 09:25 pm

    8 of 14 eligible voters cast their ballots.

    Are we also going to learn about the names of the voters without
    linking them to their vote?

    I have no plans to do that, but if the eligible voters would like to declare if
    they voted or not, I will speak out if they say one thing and did the other.

    Grin, I have no problem saying I voted. In fact, I went back and forth a bunch of times between Andrew and Alexey. Finally I assigned them a side of a coin and tossed it and the dang thing landed on the edge by a spare XP machine. So I laughed and voted for me, knowing I had no chance to win (and I am completely fine with that).

    With me out of the picture, there is a query on a Sean vote? I don't know what is going on there.

    No matter what we do, with a really small group that *can vote*, based on FTSC's own internal issues, we need to have a happy vote on leader as anything less will create internal conflict. THAT is what we need to avoid.

    So my proposal is if any FTSC member feels we need a runoff, we keep it short and sweet. It can be unfair to MVDL to drag it too long.

    Thoughts from you and the others?

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Carol Shenkenberger on Monday, December 10, 2018 18:35:29
    Hello Carol!

    10 Dec 18 17:47, you wrote to Alexey Vissarionov:

    Actually, it looks like we have a runoff maybe due to that?

    A fast revote with just you two running?

    If Alexey chooses to challenge the results, using the procedure specified in the election rules, we will revisit this.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Carol Shenkenberger on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 10:15:41
    Carol,

    With me out of the picture, there is a query on a Sean vote? I don't
    know what is going on there.

    You and I know Sean Dennis sent-in a vote, you and I know it wasn't counted, you and know it isn't even mentioned.

    My guess is it was a timing problem, too late, but it should have been reported. Since it wasn't, it cast a shadow over this election. the question then follows "How many other votes were not counted and for which reason?"

    This election is tainted and there should be a re-run.

    So my proposal is if any FTSC member feels we need a runoff, we keep it short and sweet. It can be unfair to MVDL to drag it too long.

    A run-off isn't needed but a re-vote from scratch with the same candidates, c'mon Carol ...

    - The voting has been compromised, whether or not it changes the outcome is
    IMO irrelvant
    - A vote went lost/unreported. What happened to that vote and why?
    - The provisional winner has lobbied to have a particular vote-enumerator
    - The vote-enumerator defends the outcome of the vote of which the winner is
    the one who pushed to have that particular enumerator
    - The vote-enumerator ruling on hmself?

    Before anyone climbs in their pen ... did you hear me say anything fishy happened? No you did not, I'm merely stating a veil was cast over this election
    and a re-run would be appropriate.

    And I still think we have a right to learn who did not vote, it wouldn't change
    the outcome of the election either ... but it would the next-one.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 11:07:17
    the question then follows "How many other votes were not counted and for which reason?"

    Here's one. But I don't care any more. Who's chairing the FTSC is like fighting over the Pope's beard...




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 11:25:12
    Hello Ward,

    On Tuesday December 11 2018 10:15, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

    And I still think we have a right

    You have no rights in this proces. You are not a voter or a candidate. You are JAFO.

    to learn who did not vote, it wouldn't change the outcome of the
    election either ...

    The freedom to vote includes the freedom to not use that right.

    but it would the next-one.

    Exactly. Punishing people for not executing their right to vote is a thing for totalitarian regimes.

    I might change that POV if there was a way to cast a vote of "abstain". As it was, the only way to not express a preference for of any of the candidates was to not vote.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 12:19:59
    MvdV> Exactly. Punishing people for not executing their right to vote is a
    MvdV> thing for totalitarian regimes.

    Don't be too hard on Ward, Michiel. After all, he lives in one of the few countries in the world were you are obligated by law to vote. If you don't, you'll face severe legal punishment.

    At least in theory -- that legal obnoxiousness has never worked AFAIK. Not even in Belgium.

    "You can drive your camel to water, but you can never force him to drink."



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 12:29:12
    Michiel,

    And I still think we have a right

    You have no rights in this proces. You are not a voter or a candidate.
    You are JAFO.

    The pissing-match ended a long time ago. If you're still at it, you're getting your feet wet.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 12:31:13
    the question then follows "How many other votes were not counted and BF>WD> for which reason?"

    Here's one. But I don't care any more. Who's chairing the FTSC is like fighting over the Pope's beard...

    So there's another missing vote?

    \%/@rd

    BTW, Bergoglio has a beard?

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 12:45:32
    Don't be too hard on Ward, Michiel. After all, he lives in one of the
    few countries in the world were you are obligated by law to vote. If you don't, you'll face severe legal punishment.

    Sort of, but we have the option of "None of the above" too ... Voting is electronic, real fast and the assigned polling-station is always nearby ...

    There are elections where I didn't vote and never was bothered by anyone about it.

    At least in theory -- that legal obnoxiousness has never worked AFAIK.
    Not even in Belgium.

    That is correct.

    I still would like to know who didn't vote in this FTSC Administrator election.
    That would influence my willingness to promote such a person, or not, when his/her mandate comes up.

    In 8 days five of those mandates are expiring ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 06:59:39
    Hello Ward!

    11 Dec 18 10:15, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

    You and I know Sean Dennis sent-in a vote, you and I know it wasn't counted, you and know it isn't even mentioned.

    My guess is it was a timing problem, too late, but it should have been

    I have no direct knowledge (not having discussed it with either Fred or Sean), but I suspect you are correct.

    reported. Since it wasn't, it cast a shadow over this election. the question then follows "How many other votes were not counted and for
    which reason?"

    This election is tainted and there should be a re-run.

    So my proposal is if any FTSC member feels we need a runoff, we
    keep it short and sweet. It can be unfair to MVDL to drag it too
    long.

    A run-off isn't needed but a re-vote from scratch with the same candidates, c'mon Carol ...

    - The voting has been compromised, whether or not it changes the
    outcome is IMO irrelvant - A vote went lost/unreported. What happened
    to that vote and why? - The provisional winner has lobbied to have a particular vote-enumerator - The vote-enumerator defends the outcome
    of the vote of which the winner is the one who pushed to have that particular enumerator - The vote-enumerator ruling on hmself?

    I proposed that Fred act as the enumerator, based on his knowledge of the FTSC (as a former member.) At the time it was discussed in FTSC, there was not a single voice of dissent to that proposal.

    Anyone who thinks there is anything more to the selection than that, obviously does not know either Fred or I very well.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 12:49:21
    Hello Ward,

    On Tuesday December 11 2018 12:45, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    I still would like to know who didn't vote in this FTSC Administrator election. That would influence my willingness to promote such a
    person, or not, when his/her mandate comes up.

    In that case you should have made that known BEFORE the voting deadline.

    Since you didn't it, is all the more reason to not reveal the names of the voters.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 12:53:01
    Hello Björn,

    On Tuesday December 11 2018 12:19, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Exactly. Punishing people for not executing their right to vote
    MvdV>> is a thing for totalitarian regimes.

    Don't be too hard on Ward, Michiel.

    It annoys me that he seems to think that he has a role in this. It is the FTSC members that choose their chairperson. Non members have no say in it, they are just observers. Period. ZC's are no exception.

    After all, he lives in one of the few countries in the world were you
    are obligated by law to vote. If you don't, you'll face severe legal punishment.

    At least in theory -- that legal obnoxiousness has never worked
    AFAIK. Not even in Belgium.

    A looong time ago, before I was elegible to vote, we had a similar law in The Netherlands. Didn't work.

    Actually that law just required voters to show up at the voting station. They could stll refrain from voting.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Andrew Leary on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 17:13:25
    Re: FTSC Administrator - preliminary results
    By: Andrew Leary to Carol Shenkenberger on Mon Dec 10 2018 06:00 pm

    10 Dec 18 17:40, you wrote to Fred Riccio:

    Well done on the election Fred!
    I see no challange on my side.

    Agreed. I, for one, appreciate the effort that Fred put into this.

    Thanks, Fred!

    Yup! BTW, preliminary conrgrats? I'm not sure what's up just yet. I'll read up today.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Andrew Leary on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 17:48:58
    Re: FTSC Administrator - missing vote
    By: Andrew Leary to Carol Shenkenberger on Mon Dec 10 2018 06:35 pm

    Actually, it looks like we have a runoff maybe due to that?

    A fast revote with just you two running?

    If Alexey chooses to challenge the results, using the procedure specified in the election rules, we will revisit this.

    Agreed! I'm just not real clear on what is going on. Only that I'm not running if there is a revamp/revote or whatever we wanna call.

    I'm fine with the results as they stand but want the air clear inside the FTSC so we can work without grudges or anger over a vote.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Andrew Leary on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 23:49:55
    Hi there Andrew,

    Anyone who thinks there is anything more to the selection than that, obviously does not know either Fred or I very well.

    Let me try to re-word this in order not to be misunderstood:

    * 8 votes have been recorded and were reported
    * 1 vote cast by Sean Dennis has not been reported. Was it rejected?
    It should have been reported, with its password.
    * 1 vote seems to be missing if I read Bjorns message correct.

    This could change the outcome of this election, although granted it is just a technical function.

    So, 10 votes were sent and 2 of these were vaporized, meaning a loss of 20% .... and you're OK with that? Everybody else is OK with that? I need to think about this ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 23:50:00
    Michiel,

    Since you didn't it, is all the more reason to not reveal the names of
    the voters.

    Your feet are getting wet.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR40
    * Origin: The best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap (2:292/854)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 18:29:18
    Re: Re: FTSC Administrator - preliminary results
    By: Ward Dossche to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Dec 11 2018 10:15 am

    And I still think we have a right to learn who did not vote, it wouldn't change the outcome of the election either ... but it would the next-one.

    Well, I disagree on that one. It may be a small pool but there can be any number of reasons for not voting this time.

    We have folks who work in various jobs and may not have had access to the ability to vote. That was a struggle for me when I was 'beebopping to the beat of the bream' (at sea) during 2001-2007. In fact, I missed an FTSC election while doing Timor assistance. I seem to recall I came back 2 months later to find I was relected.... I was out of connectivity for some 2 months.

    What we do know is 8 of 14 voted, and there *may* be another who may have had some admin problem or delayed delivery. Of the 5left it is very reasonable that:, one could have lost a wife or other family member and put the BBS aside, another might have been in the hospital, 1 on travel (work related or not) leaving 2 people.

    I would not be comfortable asking for reasons for not voting. Afterall, I didnt do more than basic tending of my game league when my mom showed advanced alzheimers as I freaked and took care of what I could. Later when she passed, I was doing little BBS wise for a few weeks which is understandable.

    I am not going to place those 5 in a position where they have to tell their personal issues or potentially get voted down.

    Come reelection time, we can see who is active or not well enough.
    of the 5. You'll see the active ones from them replying.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 18:38:45
    Re: Re: FTSC Administrator - preliminary results
    By: Ward Dossche to Björn Felten on Tue Dec 11 2018 12:45 pm

    I still would like to know who didn't vote in this FTSC Administrator election. That would influence my willingness to promote such a person, or not, when his/her mandate comes up.

    In 8 days five of those mandates are expiring ...

    Don't worry about that. By common sense we delayed that election. The new FTSC coordinator will handle it. We've slipped dates before (a bunch of them when the person who announced it lived in Spain as i recall as I used to netmail him a reminder).

    Probably FEB or March but not my place to set it.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to Björn Felten on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 19:41:12
    11 Dec 18 23:49, Ward Dossche wrote to Andrew Leary:

    * 1 vote seems to be missing if I read Bjorns message correct.


    Is Ward correct Björn? The last connect I see from your system was on May 10 of this year. If you did send a vote, I need a timestamp from you so I can try
    to chase it down on my end.

    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Fred Riccio on Wednesday, December 12, 2018 17:57:43
    Is Ward correct Björn?

    Yes. Isn't he (almost) always? 8-)

    The last connect I see from your system was on
    May 10 of this year. If you did send a vote, I need a timestamp from you so I can try to chase it down on my end.

    Leave it be. The candidate I voted for won the election, so let's just shut shop down for now. Maybe my vote went routed (and we all know how safe that works in the NAB world). I don't know and I do not care!

    As I've already said, all this is as stupid as fighting over the Pope's beard.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)